Despite The Hype, America Still Getting More Liberal (Or At Least More Democratic).

With all the “outrage” against president obama, the screaming mobs in townhall meetings railing against healthcare, the pundits attacking him day in and day out, it’s easy to suppose that we’re swinging back to the right after the last election.

We’re actually not it turns out, conservatives just cast a bigger shadow.  The mobs are artificial, as anyone who follows the news knows, they’re repeating glen beck talking points verbatim and the health insurance industry is bussing them in to disrupt the meetings.  When you actually take the time to poll people, 3 out of every 4 of them think we need healthcare reform.

And I just read this from gallup.  They’re polling to see who considers themselves a democrat or leans democratic, vs who considers/identifies republican to see where the advantage lies state to state for each party.

As you can see a whopping 30 of the 50 states are democratic or lean democratic, and of the rest only 4 unambiguously lean republican.

The breakdown state by state is this:

But what is more interesting to me is that of the 9 states that changed from 2008, 7 changed in favor of democrats:

So all in all the country is becoming more liberal/democratic despite the republican party trying desperately to get it’s power back.  Now I’m not a fan of the democrats exactly.  I’m not a democrat, I’m an independant.  But right now anything but republican.

Advertisements

About agnophilo

Nerd.
This entry was posted in Uncategorized and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

50 Responses to Despite The Hype, America Still Getting More Liberal (Or At Least More Democratic).

  1. rhiannonator says:

    I read this too. Xanga paints a distorted picture, super conservative

  2. agnophilo says:

    @rhiannonator – Yeah I’ve noticed.  Blogtalkradio too, the political shows on there call obama “the dictator” etc.  What horseshit.

  3. SerenaDante says:

    Very clear data =)I think that here on Xanga, the majority of “big” posters are conservative Christians, which is why at least here, there’s an atmosphere of Obama-hate. Obviously, that’s not representative of the whole country though.

  4. MangoWOW says:

    Haha. They’re just good at running their mouths. They’re loud is all.

  5. Alyxandri says:

    I think political parties are an excuse for people to not have to evaluate individual issues. Saying that a certain amount of people are registered Republican and a certain amount Democrat doesn’t really tell me much about what these people support or do not support- only what they are likely to.Thanks for the statistics though.

  6. I think reality will hit w/ the next congressional elections.  I see many Dems losing their seats. 

  7. agnophilo says:

    @SerenaDante – Why thankyouverymuch.@MangoWOW – Yup.@Alyxandri – I agree actually.  However what I’m encouraged about isn’t that people are moving toward the democrats, but that they’re moving away from the republicans.  How can you be a republican right now and not feel bad about it.  I mean I can see people who were hanging on trying to bring the party back but it just isn’t happening.  I waited a long time, the party hasn’t even started to find it’s conscience.@LifeNeedsProtection – I see more republicans losing their seats.  The whole point of this blog is that that’s what the hard data supports, which contradicts the narrative being spun by conservative news outlets.

  8. *scratches my head* Well, as an independent…I have to say that I have a slight distrust in most polls — at least the ones where someone has something to gain from paying people off to skew the results. However, if this is true — even if barely, then I’m not sure my hope for the next elections and moving past the main two parties isn’t misplaced.

  9. Alyxandri says:

    @agnophilo – well, I am conservative about economics for the most part, but I am mostly liberal on social issues. I think people should forget about parties because, when you join a party, people will assume that you support things which you do not. So this whole democrats vs. republicans war that is going on… It just seems so pointless. People moving away from one corrupt party to another doesn’t really change anything for me. There is still no sign that people are becoming educated about real issues.sorry for the rant. lol… I realize that my comment wasn’t really connected with your blog.

  10. these poll results are pretty interesting. i honestly thought there’d be a few more republican states than this.@LifeNeedsProtection – whatever makes you sleep better at night

  11. @Chinese_Sait0u – When Obama leaves office then I will be able to sleep better. 

  12. Justin_DeBin says:

    What is it with political spinsters and polls, I’ll never understand.

  13. @agnophilo – I see a wake up call for most Americans after all these stimilus pkgs that are not working and all the outrage over HC. 

  14. GodAintGood says:

    @LifeNeedsProtection – you’re not sleeping well? That makes me happy

  15. @GodAintGood –    Wow…that was kind of cruel?  

  16. curious33 says:

    I voted for Obama, because Bush led the country in the wrong direction, war-mongering and leading a fear tactic to control our minds.  I didn’t buy it.  I used to be conservative, but after Bush I started leaning liberal.  Now, I just watch and wait while the country falls apart.  Too many SIGs are affected the way government is supposed to work, and noone is giving Obama a chance.  Sigh.

  17. JJ_Ames says:

    From what I’ve read, the country is growing both more conservative AND more liberal – the middle is shrinking. I’ve been watching the news and I think your presentation of the country leaning left is inaccurate. 

  18. agnophilo says:

    @MyFreedomWings – : D  Yeah, there’s a surprisingly large number of independents in america, it’s about a third.  We don’t have a third, fourth etc party because the two that exist have been trying to maintain their strangle-hold, especially the republicans, by making politics as partisan as possible.@Alyxandri – In other words you’re conservative in the actually good sense of the word : D  Not this neo-con, social conservative religious fundamentalism insanity.So far as the off-topic comment, no worries, it’s a broad subject.@Chinese_Sait0u – To be fair maybe 10 or 15 would go republican if a national election were held tomorrow.  But most of the states are unambiguously democratic/liberal.@LifeNeedsProtection – Yes, because he’s a black nazi born in kenya who pals around with terrorists and wants to kill grandma, right?  I don’t know how people can take these conspiracy theories seriously when there’s a new one just about every week.@Justin_DeBin – ?@LifeNeedsProtection – Um, the economy collapsed.  The fact that you’re not living through the next great depression is an example of the stimulus bill “working”.  It’s not made of magic and fairy dust, it’s the only way we had to keep the economy from imploding completely when the banks collapsed, credit froze and consumers and businesses alike stopped spending money at the same time, drastically reducing demand for *everything*.  And the “outrage” over healthcare is based on misinformation and propaganda from the right.  They are “outraged” about things that don’t exist and never have.@curious33 – I still think he’s doing a decent job.  And it’s only been 6 months, that’s 1 8th of this term, or 1/16th of his presidency if he wins re-election.@JJ_Ames – It’s true that the middle is shrinking, but the majority is swinging one way more than the other.  The republican fear-mongering about healthcare is energizing their base, but their base continues to shrink.

  19. JJ_Ames says:

    @agnophilo – I fail to see how it’s “fear mongering” to be worried that our Congress was being urged to pass a bill it hadn’t reviewed and has questionable language within it. There are people who want to be answered, not dismissed as radicals just trying to stir up trouble for Obama. With the exception of the care provided to higher officials, government run care has some serious issues that need to be addressed before we expand that system.

  20. JJ_Ames says:

    @agnophilo – oh, and I think the map is a bit misleading because a lot of “conservatives” I know are no longer identifying themselves at Republicans because they feel (and I believe rightly) that the Republicans failed to honor their commitments and the priorities of their base (lower taxes and limited government).

  21. @agnophilo – Why are there some Democrats that don’t want it?  You would think if it was such a good plan than all dems would agree.  Henry Waxman doesn’t even want it.  He wants Congress opted OUT of the plan.  Now THAT tells me there is something wrong w/ it. 

  22. “Crazy” has no shame, therefore, of course they’re louder.

  23. Alyxandri says:

    @agnophilo – Yeah, but I come from a family that’s like that. lol. It drives me crazy… I guess I’m a libertarian because I believe people should have as much social and economic freedom as possible. Also, I’m an objectivist… which makes me a capitalist. @JJ_Ames – That makes sense. The Republican party used to be all about economic freedom and small government. But now, the Democrats and Republicans have been squabbling about issues like abortion and gay rights for so long… so people are distracted from the economic side of things and just agree with whatever party they like because of their social convictions.People just don’t want to spend the time it takes to understand how the economy works. So they repeat propaganda from either side or decide based on their party.

  24. Mugo60 says:

    Here in Minnesota, we have that absolute phony christian wacko. What a piece of work that Bachmann is.

  25. I would disagree with this map. Although, if you consider Gallup Polls of Congressional approval, or even of Barak “The Annointed One” Obama, you’ll see a great deal of resentment in both places. When our “representatives” go up for election soon, it will be very interesting to see how many people (regardless of their affiliation) go.Though honestly, the joke is on everyone. They’re the same party! Oops…I believe the only reason the Libertarian party is growing versus bursting at the seams with new membership is that there is a tinge of arrogance within it that holds it back from getting in the game. Then again, you also have the two sides of the same ruling coin pushing out external voices at every available opportunity. People are waking up en masse though. Interesting times are ahead…As toward healthcare, the “reform” is recieving so much opposition because it’s a bad bill. It’s bloated, opaque, crushes liberty, totally Unconstitutional (though what isn’t about Washington these days), and simply doesn’t work. Not to mention that they’re trying to ram it through like everything else–that alone is indicator enough that it shouldn’t pass.

  26. locketine says:

    I think they’re actually getting louder and more virile because they’re loosing ground and fast. People get angry when they are losing an argument and the conservative pundits have been doing that at historical levels in recent days. But really, the democrats have a decent number of conservatives within their party and in congress so calling yourself a democrat really just means you aren’t overly conservative.This poll has made me hopeful but I think the overall population of America has become more and more conservative over the last decade and that frightens me. Maybe that’s only a result of 8 years of Bush and it will just start going the other way because a democrat is president.

  27. I feel the same way in England at the moment. Labour’s not doing too great to be honest. But ANYTHING but Conservative please.

  28. This was a pretty cool blog. And it makes me very happy. :]

  29. soobee72 says:

    I think that all the crazies (and they are clearly crazy) are probably helping to push rational people to the left.  It’s not that people who have issues with the current healthcare reform bill don’t have valid points, it’s that the sane ones are being drowned out by people who are threatening elected officials with death for supporting it.  

  30. agnophilo says:

    @JJ_Ames – It’s fear mongering because they’re making stuff up.  What “questionable language”?Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin are claiming that a part of the bill which encourages people to get living wills is a stipulation for “death panels”, when it just came out this week that both of them in the past have vocally promoted living wills, sarah palin declared “healthcare decision day” in alaska promoting exactly what she is attacking in this bill, and rush limbaugh used to do commercials promoting living wills, saying it’s your responsibility, and you must do it for yourself and your family.One of the biggest people fomenting the fear about healthcare (besides those two) is glenn beck, whose words the screaming people in townhalls are usually directly parroting.Please, please watch the first section of this episode of the daily show that aired last night to see how totally full of shit he is.These people are simply lying to people and making shit up to promote republican and corporate interests because there’s money in it for them.

  31. agnophilo says:

    @JJ_Ames – So this doesn’t “count” why?@LifeNeedsProtection – No, if you followed the news at all you’d know that one senator proposed a bill to end medicaid (government run health insurance) and told the republicans it was put-up-or-shut-up time, forcing them to go on the record voting for or against the “government run healthcare” they were railing against.  Not one single republican voted against it, and as political retribution they proposed a “put up or shut up” vote to make all members of congress a part of the new healthcare insurance, which people voted against because it was a bullshit proposal, and because they didn’t want to obligate themselves to use a healthcare system that does not exist yet.

  32. agnophilo says:

    @Magniloquentia – “As toward healthcare, the “reform” isrecieving so much opposition because it’s a bad bill. It’s bloated,opaque, crushes liberty, totally Unconstitutional (though what isn’tabout Washington these days), and simply doesn’t work. Not to mentionthat they’re trying to ram it through like everything else–that aloneis indicator enough that it shouldn’t pass.”You haven’t said one thing to support a single one of those assertions.

  33. @agnophilo – Just heard on the news last night that they will be cutting this bill b/c of all the outcries at the town meetings.  Hopefully if they make this bill shorter …Congress will read it.  Duh! 

  34. agnophilo says:

    @locketine – It’s as result of bush and his capitalizing on 9/11.  His approval ratings were comparable to obama’s 6 months in, then 9/11 hit and they went up into the 90’s.  Wtf?  They gradually went down, then spiked again with the iraq war, though not as much, then kept tapering down and now they’re in the gutter of course, when it hardly matters anymore.

  35. agnophilo says:

    @HammersAndStrings – I thought you might enjoy this.  It’s a perfect depiction of social conservativism over here too.@Darth_Windows – Glad to spread happiness in the world : D@soobee72 – Yeah I know, the constant obama bashing and liberal bashing does nothing but make people with legitimate criticisms not want to “pile on” and leads to unaccountability on both sides.  But I think the politicians and pundits on the right don’t really care if the country goes up in flames or the economy collapses, so long as they can spin it to their advantage and be king of shit mountain.@LifeNeedsProtection – Congress WROTE it, obviously they’ve read it.  And they’re cutting this provision because of people like sarah palin and rush limbaugh who in the past supported the very same policy.  What are they cutting?  Funding for consultations for end-of-life care from doctors.  Basically people on their death beds will now have to pay out of pocket to ask their doctor questions about end of life treatment, the risks and benefits of resuccitation etc, it means less coverage for people who need it the most, people who are dying.Thanks republicans.

  36. agnophilo says:

    @Mugo60 – Oh yeah I know.  Total frigging loon.

  37. JJ_Ames says:

    @agnophilo – because it doesn’t actually reflect a paradigm shift of American standpoints but rather a re-labeling in reaction to Republicans acting un-Republican? 

  38. JJ_Ames says:

    @agnophilo – see, I’ve read the bill and the language in the bill doesn’t allude to “voluntary” end of life care but rather mandatory. Also, the current language suggests an outcome where employers will drop the health-coverage of their employees in favor of paying fine because it’s cost-effective which means people who currently have insurance will be pushed onto the public option. It also has in its wording stipulations that force private insurance to play by the publicly funded program’s rules which means they can’t possibly compete.Nobody in their right mind is arguing that healthcare reform shouldn’t happen, people are just arguing about how it should happen.

  39. Anonymous says:

    To consider a Gallup pole an accurate depiction is a show of your lack of understanding, versus taking actual polling results from Americans who care enough to vote, you’ve instead relied upon a “random” picked survey. And to tell me that Texas of all places has is now a Swing State is ludicrous, after all Texas has voted Republican since 1980. While Michigan, who has voted Democrat since 1992 is actually considered a swing state, but not according to Gallup Pole… had you looked at actual election results you would see this. With that being said, it would be wise of you to look at other forms of data… like actual results.. than to focus primarily on a single set of OFTEN incorrect numbers. And furthermore as shown on Gallup poles own website lately the democrats have been favored in deviation. With that being said… after the vast majority of uneducated Americans hear information regarding what American will vote for, what do they do…. follow the trend. Take Michigan for example, our governor is by far the worse thing to hit this state ever. Not only has she made this place the single worst state for unemployment, but has continued to be elected into office by the citizens of Detroit, Lansing, and Kalamazoo. These places being the ones affected worse by unemployment… this shows a lack of the common persons understanding.Also Read: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/august_2009/support_for_congressional_health_care_reform_falls_to_new_lowSources:http://www.gallup.com/poll/9442/election-polls-accuracy-record-presidential-elections.aspxhttp://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/preferences.phphttp://www.270towin.com/http://www.csg.org/policy/default.aspxWith all of that being said, sure America may not be swinging back to the right, yet. It will probably take another demecrat victory in the White House before this happens and ‘change’ is demanded. Though in my opinion the House and Senate will swing back before year 6.See the following website for Trends (also please note who held the House and Senate during Clinton’s years.)http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgovernment/l/bl_party_division_2.htm

  40. @agnophilo – haha “..but now that we’ve GOT the recipe…” thanks : )

  41. agnophilo says:

    @JJ_Ames – Un-republican?  They supported this shit under bush, it’s definitely a paradigm shift.@secondstorm – So you’re saying america is not becoming more democratic because I didn’t base my opinion on people who voted?  Um, democrats won in a landslide the last two elections, wtf?So far as it being ridiculous that texas would be a battleground state, their governor was a democrat in 1995, followed by george bush who won by lying about his opponent and claiming that crime rates had skyrocketed under her watch when they hadn’t, and one othe republican after him.  Before her, it was republican, democrat, republican, democrat and then all democratic governors going back into the 1800s.  Texas has only been a “red” state for a relatively short while.So far as your links, you linked to a site showing that gallup polls are generally accurate to the outcomes of elections by about 1-2% to prove that they aren’t accurate.  Again, wtf?@JJ_Ames – Actually a lot of people not in their right mind are arguing that healthcare reform shouldn’t happen.  And please cite references for your claims.@HammersAndStrings – Yeah I liked that : D”We will be more than prepared…”

  42. GodAintGood says:

    @LifeNeedsProtection – oh, you know i was just kidding, hence the smiley face.

  43. @agnophilo – Hrm, I’ll try to be concise, though it shall be difficult. Mind you, legislation is not something to be passed without question until proven malignant. Legislation must prove itself both necessary and effective to be deserving to be law. You should be the one explaining to other WHY it works, not the other way around. Anyway…1.It’s over 1,000 pages dense.2.There is no way to pay for it, even if we weren’t already TRILLIONS in debt.3.Bureaucrats decide what treatments are available and to whom, not your doctor. That’s one major reason why survival rates for critical injury/illness are so much higher in the USA.4.It will kill competition because it can ignore the market. Essentially, it’s a business that does not have to operate at a profit, has a limitless budget subsidized by taxpayers (including rival insurance companies as an entity, then their individual owners/employers).5.Forces you under threat of robbery and imprisonment to purchase something many Americans do not wish to have or feel they need.6.Ballooning costs are only being had in the Government. The private sector is rather stable, and any increases occuring are simply being passed on to them by hospitals because good-old Uncle Sam only pays 85% of the market price. It’s called price fixing, and it doesn’t work. You either pass the costs onto private insurers because you must, or the government dominates the system. Right now our masters in D.C. and trying to transition from one to the other because they’re still going broke.7.Socialized medicine works, but very poorly. It operates very poorly because of it’s “free” nature. When cost is nothing, demand is infinite. Being that nothing is actually free, you either resort to oppressive taxes, abolishing compeition (like in Canada/most of Europe), and then consolidate all relevant industries under a monolithic government agency, in which case you’ll end up having to resort to rationing anyway. If that simple explaination of the economics behind it isn’t adequate, and you don’t care to read the volumes of material out there explaining how that’s exactly what’s happening everywhere where medical care is a function of the state, then just look at death/survival/treatment rates of life threatening injuries, diseases, disorders, and access to care.8.”That is why I’ve said that even as we rescue this economy from a full-blown crisis, we must rebuild it stronger than before. And health insurance reform is central to that effort.” Quite nearly a lie. Federal entitlement programs which are a massive Ponse scheme that Madof was just villified for are making the US government broke to such an extent that they can no longer monetize the debt (inflation). Instead of ending the welfare/warfare state, Uncle Sam wants YOU to pay the bills of others.“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care plan.”“To all those using scare tactics, imagine the cost of doing nothing.” (scare tactic unto itself)“And I want it done by the end of this year. I want it done by the fall.”9.”Healthcare is a right.” WRONG. Rights cease to be rights when they infinge on another. Saying healthcare is a right is saying that you are inherently entitled to the labor, time, and property of another human being regardless of their will. Using the same logic, YOUR FOOD, YOUR HOME, YOUR CLOTHING, YOUR TOOLS, are ALL MINE BY RIGHT because I WANT them. What could be more immoral and less Constitutional than that?That’s off the top of my head. So, how about YOU explain to ME why I need YOUR legislation in my life?

  44. Anonymous says:

    @agnophilo –  Great comebacks… “wtf” really sums up an intellectual conversation.By your idea that this last election, by popular vote obama won by 7%, you consider that a landslide, so a 2% deviation from actual statistics is what? That’s a HUGE margin of error if 7% is a landslide.Thank you by the way for defeating yourself in your response, you truly have brought yourself to a level worthy of stoning.Also had you looked at the gallup polls statistics you would see it’s not generally 1-2% and when it is, the party’s are less than 10% difference in the actuallresults, making the margin of error that much more significant.And the final slap towards your self-defeating blog, you do realize the predominant party of the 1800’s was actually the Democratic-Republicans party, and with that being said, use a source other than wikipedia to come back at me, I read that page aswell and noticed the faults in the links and color coded…. ie the governors listed as democrat, click the name, you will see a lot of them actually were republicans….Thank you for being so damn stupid, you have made my day a little bit better.

  45. JJ_Ames says:

    @agnophilo – it’s in the bill before Congress – read it. And yes, Un-Republican. What they sold to former Republicans was “we won’t tax and we won’t expand the government” which, under Bush, was a load of horseshit. I know a decent number of of Republicans who voted for Obama because he made promises of limited government and no new taxes on anyone but the upper class.

  46. agnophilo says:

    @Magniloquentia – “Hrm, I’ll try to be concise, though itshall be difficult. Mind you, legislation is not something to be passedwithout question until proven malignant. Legislation must prove itselfboth necessary and effective to be deserving to be law. You should bethe one explaining to other WHY it works, not the other way around.Anyway…”You are the one making claims, it is up to you to support them.”1.It’s over 1,000 pages dense.”Uh huh.”2.There is no way to pay for it, even if we weren’t already TRILLIONS in debt.”Very untrue, most of it will pay for itself since people will be paying into it like any other insurance policy.  What will cost money is mostly those who cannot afford to pay into the system, and obama’s proposed spending cuts that amount to around 2/3 of the cost already.  Obama isn’t proposing that the government pay for everyone’s healthcare, or even everyone on the public option.  What he’s proposing is that everyone who wants it pays into a public health insurance system that will be able to negotiate for lower rates for medical care and medication because it will be a very big customer, a very big pool of people.  You don’t seem to understand what is actually being proposed.”3.Bureaucratsdecide what treatments are available and to whom, not your doctor.That’s one major reason why survival rates for critical injury/illnessare so much higher in the USA.”So when insurance companies deny treatment left and right it’s not a cause of america’s high death rate etc, but only when the government does it?  And when does the government do this?  Not to mention that the whole point of healthcare reform is to FIX this problem and get healthcare companies and the public option to cover pre-existing conditions, preventative medicine etc.4.It will kill competitionbecause it can ignore the market. Essentially, it’s a business thatdoes not have to operate at a profit, has a limitless budget subsidizedby taxpayers (including rival insurance companies as an entity, thentheir individual owners/employers).”It is subsidized by taxes the same way the post office is, and UPS and FedEx are doing just fine.  The only thing taxpayers are going to be subsidizing beyond just paying for their own insurance, is paying for those that can’t afford to pay into the system.”5.Forces you under threatof robbery and imprisonment to purchase something many Americans do notwish to have or feel they need.”Yes, you just described all taxes.  And if you don’t wish to have it or feel you need it, DON’T OPT INTO IT.”6.Ballooning costs are onlybeing had in the Government. The private sector is rather stable,” Please provide some evidence of this ridiculous claim.”andany increases occuring are simply being passed on to them by hospitalsbecause good-old Uncle Sam only pays 85% of the market price. It’scalled price fixing, and it doesn’t work. You either pass the costsonto private insurers because you must, or the government dominates thesystem. Right now our masters in D.C. and trying to transition from oneto the other because they’re still going broke.”Paying for health insurance for people who can’t afford to seek medical treatment will create more demand and more profits for hospitals, as well as relieving the burden of the millions who use emergency rooms and don’t pay the bill because they can’t afford to, which not only gives them a lousy standard of medical treatment, but also drives up hospital expenses and therefore medical costs and insurance premiums.  You act like there’s nothing positive, only negative.”7.Socializedmedicine works, but very poorly. It operates very poorly because ofit’s “free” nature. When cost is nothing, demand is infinite. Beingthat nothing is actually free, you either resort to oppressive taxes,abolishing compeition (like in Canada/most of Europe), and thenconsolidate all relevant industries under a monolithic governmentagency, in which case you’ll end up having to resort to rationinganyway. If that simple explaination of the economics behind it isn’tadequate, and you don’t care to read the volumes of material out thereexplaining how that’s exactly what’s happening everywhere where medicalcare is a function of the state, then just look atdeath/survival/treatment rates of life threatening injuries, diseases,disorders, and access to care.”Those rates are better and worse in countries with universal healthcare, depending on the country and depending on the system.  What is being proposed for our system is not what they have in canada or england, it is a public option which is funded by the people getting the insurance, and which covers a lot more than regular insurance, just like the insurance people in congress get.  So long as it is based on what people put into it, private industries will always be able to compete by definition, but they will have to offer a higher standard of care and insure more things to be able to compete.  The point of the public option is to not only insure the uninsured, but make the private health insurance companies less demented.”8.”That is why I’ve saidthat even as we rescue this economy from a full-blown crisis, we mustrebuild it stronger than before. And health insurance reform is centralto that effort.” Quite nearly a lie. Federal entitlement programswhich are a massive Ponse scheme that Madof was just villified for aremaking the US government broke to such an extent that they can nolonger monetize the debt (inflation). No, bernie madoff had a ponzie scheme – what that has to do with healthcare reform is beyond me.”Instead of ending thewelfare/warfare state, Uncle Sam wants YOU to pay the bills of others.”Yes, just like you pay for roads you don’t drive on, the fire department even if you never have a fire, the police, FBI, prisons etc even if you are never the victim of a crime, and so on and so forth.  Sorry, but when you pay your taxes the government doesn’t just hand them right back to you.   They go to things that we as a society need but cannot pay for or afford individually.“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care plan.”If someone gives hundreds, maybe thousands of speeches in a campaign, and says single payer system in one of them and something else in all the others, what is more likely, that they misspoke in one of countless speeches, or that they lied in all the rest?  A single payer system is not what is being proposed by anyone, and as such your quote is moot.“To all those using scare tactics, imagine the cost of doing nothing.” (scare tactic unto itself)No, saying obama is trying to pull the plug on grandma is a scare tactic, talking about something with a definite rising monetary cost is another.  What is the cost of doing nothing?  Over a trillion dollars a year in a couple of years at the rate health insurance costs are rising.“And I want it done by the end of this year. I want it done by the fall.”Your point?9.”Healthcareis a right.” WRONG. Rights cease to be rights when they infinge onanother. Saying healthcare is a right is saying that you are inherentlyentitled to the labor, time, and property of another human beingregardless of their will. Using the same logic, YOUR FOOD, YOUR HOME,YOUR CLOTHING, YOUR TOOLS, are ALL MINE BY RIGHT because I WANT them.What could be more immoral and less Constitutional than that?”This is just stupid.  You act as if we’re putting shackles on all the country’s doctors and making them literal slaves, rather than paying them an honest wage.  Either that or you’re getting butt-hurt because your taxes are going to help those less fortunate.  In which case I couldn’t give two shits.  Boo fucking hoo.By the same logic I could say why should my tax dollars go to help a crime victim?  I mean I don’t want anyone using MY FUCKING GODDAMN MONEY to track down some rapist just because he likes little girls and has a mean streak.  I mean it’s not my problem.  I could buy a second car if the government wasn’t stealing my money and practically giving it away to so-called “victims”.If I said that, what exactly would you think of me?”That’s off the top of my head. So, how about YOU explain to ME why I need YOUR legislation in my life?”Because it will save thousands of lives each and every year and prevent countless preventable diseases, have a ripple effect of dramatically increasing the quality of life of millions of your fellow citizens, not to mention drastically reduce healthcare costs which are a major contributor to the national debt.

  47. agnophilo says:

    @secondstorm – “Great comebacks… “wtf” really sums up an intellectual conversation.”Oh stupid being such a shitbag.”Byyour idea that this last election, by popular vote obama won by 7%, youconsider that a landslide, so a 2% deviation from actual statistics iswhat? That’s a HUGE margin of error if 7% is a landslide.”Sorry, but I said nothing about 7 percent being a landslide, I said the democrats won in a landslide, meaning they picked up a lot of seats and lost NONE in the house or senate.  Not one.  That’s a fucking landslide you moron.”Thank you by the way for defeating yourself in your response, you truly have brought yourself to a level worthy of stoning.”What kind of psychotic lowlife says someone deserves to die because they disagree with you?”Alsohad you looked at the gallup polls statistics you would see it’s notgenerally 1-2% and when it is, the party’s are less than 10% differencein the actuallresults, making the margin of error that much moresignificant.”I did look at the gallup results.”And the final slap towards your self-defeating blog,you do realize the predominant party of the 1800’s was actually theDemocratic-Republicans party, and with that being said, use a sourceother than wikipedia to come back at me, I read that page aswell andnoticed the faults in the links and color coded…. ie the governorslisted as democrat, click the name, you will see a lot of them actuallywere republicans….”The only thing I said about the 1800s was that the governor of texas was a democrat going back into the 1800s.  I was talking about the 1900s, you know, where we lived recently.  And the ones listed as republican are ones that changed parties.  They were democrats when they held the office of governor in texas.”Thank you for being so damn stupid, you have made my day a little bit better.”Condescending little shitbag.

  48. @agnophilo – Oh man, you’ve been drinking the koolaide for some time I see. O.K. Some very simple rebutals.1. It’s a simple illustration of my claims that it is bloated, and why barely anyone in Congress has still even fully read it.2.Why would you need 1 Trillion dollars to kick off and sustain the program? If it were not funded by taxpayers not in the program, and only by participants like any private insurance company, why would the government need to cut spending everywhere else to make it feasible?3. Not true. Only in countries where socialized medicine exists are people being denied TREATMENT. In the USA, TREATMENT cannot be denied for any reason. PAYMENT is sometimes refused by a company because their policy does not cover it. In Canada and Europe, people are denied TREATMENT, despite having paid for it already. Learn the difference.4. You contradict yourself here. Earlier you state the program is self sufficient, then you acknowledge that it will be paid for by everyone, even those who do not use it (which includes its competition). Oh, and FYI, The Post Office has a government sanction monopoly on the delivery of letters. FedEx and UPS can only legally deliver parcels. Furthermore, even as it has zero compeition, it’s still operating at a loss. Very curious…5. By it being created, you pay into it Commrad. You have no choice. Accept it and pay for it, or don’t accept it and finance the theives who do. This is the reason why we have STATES, and are a REPUBLIC. This way, Nebraskan’s don’t pay for the habits of Californians who have nearly totally different cultures and desires. When government is kept as locally as possible, everyone wins.6. Well, I’m a paramedic, I work in a hospital, and have worked in healthcare since I was 18. I’ll be applying for medical school soon. I started in insurance. Medical insurance agencies are doing just fine. Particularly when you compare them to other industries. The government is asking for a bailout with this program because their welfare obligations are unsustainable, not the insurance companies that actually have to function properly and at profit to survive.You are forgetting half of the curve. INCREASE of DEMAND, causes LIMITS in SUPPLY. Limits in supply cause VALUE/COSTS to INCREASE. Where do you think the housing bubble came from? Why do you think tuition is so high? The only way you can even attempt to curve it is through mandatory universal participation, and price fixing. Neither work.The FED pushed everyone to make bad loans on the basis of “fairness” and “equality”, then garunteed them through FEDERAL PROGRAMS, giving a false impression of little risk. Universities are bursting through the seams because of Federal loan programs creating an artifical demand. More people can now go to college, colleges are limited, prices go up. You now also have tons of people with no way to pay the loans back, because they have degrees that the market never had any use for to begin with. Without a neighbor/competition/taxpayer financed loan, they might have gone on to do something productive, instead of just wracking up debt for themselves, you, and me. Government spending != prosperity. It’s actually inverse to it. Furthermore, government can only spend what other people earn. So, how does creating an atificial demand with stolen money lower prices exactly?7. Actually, no. Nearly all rates are lower in nearly every country. About the only thing higher would be infant mortality rates, and that’s largely a product of “creative accounting”. You see, being a BioChemistry/Pre-Med major who works in a hospital, you spend alot of time researching and learning these things. *Note: In your response to point 7, you acknowledged that competition will only be preserved so long as this “public option” is self sufficient by its own revenue. You have noted in at least 3 other points of your argument that it will be supported by taxes.8. The government does not operate at profit, nor does it produce anything, and hence cannot make money. This is why Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. are all nearly broke. They rely on more people paying into it than using it–the definition of a Ponsi Scheme. The only difference between Madoff and The Fed is not that he made false promises, or committed fraud, but that when the government does it–it’s legal and can be sustained through cohersion, law, and increases on taxes to people who don’t even benefit from it. This new legislation is no different.9. It’s called freedom of choice. Revolutionary concept, I know. The argument that healthcare is a right is morally weak and outright false. By claiming you have a right to another’s time, labor, and property, you make EVERYTHING a right. If healthcare is a right, how could food, water, shelter, and clothing not be? We all have a right to EARN these things, not rob them from another in a fit of moral righteousness.Here’s another revolutionary concept. CHARITY or COMMUNITY. If you feel so baddly for the lie that is the 45 million person demographic, you can contribue all you can without stealing from someone else. Or would that not be convienient?PS: State healthcare does make doctors/nurses/medics/tech/etc. property of the state. Ask a Canadian.The Obama quotes were to demonstrate that he does in fact want a single payer socialismo. He’s said it plenty of times. Nancy Pelosi too. They want it passed quickly because once it’s in, it’s sticking around. You can’t just hit the “undo” button with these sort of things. It’s called the Shock Doctorine. Bailout and The Patriot Acts were two of many.ENDPOINT: So it doesn’t work Consitutionally, morally, economically, or even medically. Run that by me why we need it again?

  49. agnophilo says:

    “Oh man, you’ve been drinking the koolaide for some time I see. O.K. Some very simple rebutals.”Condescending douche.”1. It’s a simple illustration of my claims that it is bloated, and why barely anyone in Congress has still even fully read it.”Yes, and I aknowledged it.  Sorry it’s not three paragraphs written in crayon.”2.Whywould you need 1 Trillion dollars to kick off and sustain the program?” You need 1 trillion dollars to kick off and sustain filling your gas tank if you factor it out over enough years.  It’s about 80 billion a year to start and maintain the program, republicans factor it out over a decade or more to pretend the cost is higher.”If it were not funded by taxpayers not in the program, and only byparticipants like any private insurance company, why would thegovernment need to cut spending everywhere else to make it feasible?”You know the answer to this question.  The part that is taxpayer subsidized is the startup cost and the part that pays for people who can’t afford to pay health insurance premiums.  The rest works like a regular health insurance plan, you get what you pay for.”3.Not true. Only in countries where socialized medicine exists are peoplebeing denied TREATMENT. In the USA, TREATMENT cannot be denied for anyreason.” Horse shit.  You cannot be denied emergency treatment, people get denied treatment all the time.  If you have cancer you can’t walk into a hospital with no money and no insurance and get chemo treatments.  But they’ll stabilize you when you have your first seizures and then send you packing as soon as you can walk.  It’s not considered emergency treatment to sew lost limbs and fingers back on, you have to pay tens of thousands of dollars for that, and if you can’t pay you watch them rot.  And you claim that you work with the medical industry.  Ever been inside a hospital before?  Maybe you have, just never without any insurance.”PAYMENT is sometimes refused by a company because their policydoes not cover it. In Canada and Europe, people are denied TREATMENT,despite having paid for it already. Learn the difference.”People are denied payment and treatment all the time in america even if they pay their insurance premiums, despite your fairy tale version of how things work in this country.”4.You contradict yourself here. Earlier you state the program is selfsufficient, then you acknowledge that it will be paid for by everyone,even those who do not use it (which includes its competition).” No, I said what I said above, which is what I’ve been saying the whole fucking time.  That only the people who can’t afford to pay for insurance will be taxpayer subsidized.”Oh, andFYI, The Post Office has a government sanction monopoly on the deliveryof letters. FedEx and UPS can only legally deliver parcels.Furthermore, even as it has zero compeition, it’s still operating at aloss. Very curious…”Maybe delivering letters isn’t very lucrative.  And it does have competition you moron, you just mentioned it’s competition.”5. By it being created, you pay into itCommrad.” You can go fuck yourself and your communism references.”You have no choice. Accept it and pay for it, or don’t acceptit and finance the theives who do.” Yeah, like those “thieves” that “steal” your tax money to prosecute criminals just because someone “raped” and “murdered” them.  Only rich people should be able to use police resources damnit!You selfish, unbelievably apathetic shitbag.”This is the reason why we haveSTATES, and are a REPUBLIC. This way, Nebraskan’s don’t pay for thehabits of Californians who have nearly totally different cultures anddesires. When government is kept as locally as possible, everyone wins.”Except that smaller insurance pools mean higher rates, so state run pools would cost much more money than one big federal pool to pick up the slack.  Just like having an FBI in addition to local law enforcement allows for the tracking and prosecution of interstate crime, trafficking, crimes in multiple jurisdictions tried at the same time, localized fingerprint and DNA databases which make tracking crime much more efficient etc.  Sometimes local government isn’t enough, and a federal program is more practical.  This is one of those times.  You can’t apply some generic constitutional philosophy mindlessly to every single instance of government spending as if they’re all the same.”6.Well, I’m a paramedic, I work in a hospital, and have worked inhealthcare since I was 18. I’ll be applying for medical school soon. I started in insurance.Medical insurance agencies are doing just fine.” I know they’re doing just fine.  They’re making billions of dollars by charging high premiums people are forced into buying by their employers and then denying as much coverage as possible and cancelling their claims when they get very sick.  It’s very profitable for them.”Particularly when youcompare them to other industries. The government is asking for abailout with this program because their welfare obligations areunsustainable, not the insurance companies that actually have tofunction properly and at profit to survive.”Wtf are you talking about?  How is the government trying to insure people with no healthcare a government bailout?  And the point is to try to lower the cost of healthcare for everyone including the government.”You areforgetting half of the curve. INCREASE of DEMAND, causes LIMITS inSUPPLY. Limits in supply cause VALUE/COSTS to INCREASE.” Setting aside that increase in demand inevitably leads to increase in supply, hospitals are already burdened by having to treat people (badly, in emergency rooms which usually don’t actually fix them) for free, which causes their expenses to increase and everyone’s insurance costs to go up.  Won’t paying for those peoples’ healthcare relieve them of that burden, lower everyone’s premiums, and give hospitals more revenue to expand their staff?”Where do youthink the housing bubble came from? Why do you think tuition is sohigh? The only way you can even attempt to curve it is throughmandatory universal participation, and price fixing. Neither work.”Nobody is proposing mandatory universal participation or price fixing.  And paying a lower rate for someone the hospital might have had to treat for free before is an improvement for the hospital.”TheFED pushed everyone to make bad loans on the basis of “fairness” and”equality”, then garunteed them through FEDERAL PROGRAMS, giving afalse impression of little risk.” You can’t compare what the banks did with the idea of public health insurance.  The banks and housing industry collapsed for a number of reasons not at all related to this issue.”Universities are bursting through theseams because of Federal loan programs creating an artifical demand.More people can now go to college, colleges are limited, prices go up.You now also have tons of people with no way to pay the loans back,because they have degrees that the market never had any use for tobegin with. Without a neighbor/competition/taxpayer financed loan, theymight have gone on to do something productive, instead of just wrackingup debt for themselves, you, and me. Government spending != prosperity.It’s actually inverse to it.” You are citing the exception as the rule.  Are you saying no one is better off for having gone to college?”Furthermore, government can only spendwhat other people earn. So, how does creating an atificial demand withstolen money lower prices exactly?”Again, characterizing anything done with taxes as thievery is stupid and hypocritical.  I explained this and you totally ignored that section of my last response, and just repeated yourself instead.And the only way it would be an “artificial” demand is if 50 million people are immune from disease and injury and are genetic super-humans that have no hereditary illnesses.  So far as how it cuts costs, it creates competition with an insurance program that can give people a much more reasonable rate for healthcare and cover more procedures, checkups, pre-existing conditions etc, which the health insurance companies can do right now but won’t because they wouldn’t make as much money.”7. Actually, no. Nearlyall rates are lower in nearly every country. About the only thinghigher would be infant mortality rates, and that’s largely a product of”creative accounting”. You see, being a BioChemistry/Pre-Med major whoworks in a hospital, you spend alot of time researching and learningthese things.”Literally a lie.  The death rate in america is according to the UN 97 out of 195 countries tallied, and according to the CIA factbook it’s 94 out of 192.  About half the world’s countries are higher and half are lower.  To suggest that we’re number 1 in everything is just stupid.”*Note: In your response to point 7, youacknowledged that competition will only be preserved so long as this”public option” is self sufficient by its own revenue. You have notedin at least 3 other points of your argument that it will be supportedby taxes.”I have been perfectly clear in my comments, you are ignoring what I said and forcing it into a dichotomy.”8. The government does not operate at profit, nordoes it produce anything, and hence cannot make money.” Um, it provides services which people pay for.  You don’t have to manufacture something to make money.  Not to mention that you don’t seem to understand the concept of taxes.  You keep responding with “You no take me money, that me money not government money!  Fire bad, raaaaar!””This is whySocial Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. are all nearly broke. Theyrely on more people paying into it than using it–the definition of aPonsi Scheme.  The only difference between Madoff and The Fed is notthat he made false promises, or committed fraud, but that when thegovernment does it–it’s legal and can be sustained through cohersion,law, and increases on taxes to people who don’t even benefit from it.This new legislation is no different.”This is just fucking bonkers.  If the government provides a service that isn’t profitable it’s a crime and it’s stealing, and should be against the law.  Like municipal garbage disposal and subsidized utilities and building roads and such.  These should all be illegal.  Hell the FBI doesn’t turn a profit, get rid of it.  Nothing can profit society unless it produces green paper, right?How fucking short-sighted.”9. It’s called freedomof choice. Revolutionary concept, I know.” It’s called representative government.  You VOTE for people who spend your tax dollars and if you don’t like how they do things, you VOTE against them, and protest and debate your position and get others to do the same.  That was a revolutionary concept a few hundred years ago, but apparently for some it hasn’t sunken in yet.  You want to pay your taxes and then have the government go to you as an individual and ask permission to spend it on things.  Yes, all hail emperor douchebag, lord of the treasury.”The argument that healthcareis a right is morally weak and outright false.” I didn’t argue that healthcare is a right.  “Rights” are an erroneous concept.  I argued against what you said, which was bullshit.”By claiming you have aright to another’s time, labor, and property, you make EVERYTHING aright.”Yeah keep arguing against things only you said.”If healthcare is a right, how could food, water, shelter, andclothing not be? We all have a right to EARN these things, not rob themfrom another in a fit of moral righteousness.”I wouldn’t call them “rights” but I think we must ensure everyone has access to them, which is why we have food stamp programs, homeless shelters, programs to help people not get evicted, and I think water should be paid for with taxes.  I mean do you even know anyone who doesn’t have running water?”Here’s anotherrevolutionary concept. CHARITY or COMMUNITY.” Name me a charity that can raise 80 billion dollars a year and we’ll talk.  And even if there was one, wouldn’t you want them regulated and under penalty of law so they wouldn’t inevitably mismanage 80 billion dollars?I’m not talking about getting someone a blanket and some food, I’m talking about getting them a heart bypass or a hip replacement.  You can’t volunteer for that, you have to pay for it.  And hospitals can’t even volunteer their time because their malpractice insurance rates would go up.”If you feel so baddly forthe lie that is the 45 million person demographic,” It’s lazy to just call something a lie you don’t like and not back it up with anything.”you can contribueall you can without stealing from someone else. Or would that not beconvienient?”Medicare costs you a penny and a half out of every dollar you earn.  That much probably accumulates in your house in unspent change each year.  But no, it’s YOUR fucking penny and they can pry it out of your cold dead fingers!!!1  Right?Selfish asshole.What is morality but what helps the most people and harms the fewest?  What problem do you have with someone taking a few pennies from everyone to dramatically help those less fortunate?”PS: State healthcare does make doctors/nurses/medics/tech/etc. property of the state. Ask a Canadian.”You must be confused – canada is a bit further north.  You live in america where unrelated legislation is being proposed.”TheObama quotes were to demonstrate that he does in fact want a singlepayer socialismo. He’s said it plenty of times. Nancy Pelosi too.” And my response was to illustrate the reverse.  So thanks for ignoring it and repeating your bullshit assertions.”Theywant it passed quickly because once it’s in, it’s sticking around. Youcan’t just hit the “undo” button with these sort of things. It’s calledthe Shock Doctorine. Bailout and The Patriot Acts were two of many.”The shock doctrine is the idea of hastily (in a matter of hours usually) proposing and passing legislation in the midst of some kind of tragedy or when the news media is distracted.  Waiting weeks and months to pass legislation and allowing for exhaustive debate and 24 hour constant news coverage and commentary is the exact opposite of the shock doctrine you moron.”ENDPOINT: So it doesn’t work Consitutionally,” Neither does the FBI.  I’m still waiting for you to agree that we should abolish it.”morally,” Yes, because helping those without is just a shitty thing to do.”economically,” It’s an attempt to lower healthcare costs which are more than double what they are in other countries as well as change the system in a number of other ways to encourage the healthcare system to get back on it’s feet and make insurance competative.  Yeah, who needs it?”or even medically. Run that by me why we need it again?”I don’t remember the part where you explained how universal insurance doesn’t work “medically”.

  50. @agnophilo – Of that 47-50 million person figure, nearly 15 million of them are illegals and/or resident aliens–non citizens. Only about 10 million desire insurance but lack it due to financial capability. The rest are capable, but do not desire it. Big fucking deal.This program does not keep insurance companies “honest”, it intends to subvert them and go to a single payer socialismo. It does not ahere to market forces. You honestly think that when this program goes broke, they’ll pack it up and call it quits? You honestly think they will say, “It was a nice try. Maybe next time guys.” NO! There is no such thing as an unsuccessful government agency or program–only underfunded ones. Think very hard about that statement.It will price fix, it will operate at a loss, it will finance that abyssal pit of loss through taxes on insurance companies and the individuals who work for them. It will be financed by the people who use private insurance. It will be finances by the people who use and benefit from neither. It will do this until nothing is left but the federal program, at which point it will continue to impoverish us all whether we are healthy or not.War on Drugs = drug crime increases.War on Poverty = Middle class shrinks significantlyCommunity Reinvestment Act = Massive housing bubble, insuing financial crisis and inflation.Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac (Fed proxies) = Billions in malinvestment and fraud.Social Security = National debt soars, ticking time-bomb.Medicare + Medicaid = Medical costs have only ballooned since their inception. Two more ticking time-bombs.Federal Student Aid Programs = Tutition costs soar.Department of Education = Education has only declined since.SEC = Millions and millions in funding, tons of fraud.FEMA = Billions wasted, very few people helped.Need I go on? There is no exception to be had. Federal government involvment is nothing but the pinnicle of inefficiency, ineptitude, and waste. If central planning worked at that scale, your glorious Mother Russia would never have abandoned the soviet system.Name a federal agency, and I’ll show you something that is an ineffective waste that does nothing but rob its citizens and oppress its population. Do you find it any small conincidence that the point in which this country had the greatest success, development, and improvement in quality of life preceeded federal involvment? Do you realize that ever since the federal government got it’s tainted hands on enough money to grow (Federal income tax 1913), that this country has only declined in terms of real income?  That with every federal program instated (particularly after WWII), that any arena or industry where the government has started a program has become more expensive and provided less quality?The Post Office has ZERO compeition for mailed letters! They have a state enforced monopoly backed by the full might of the glorious federal government, yet they can’t even break even! They’re BILLIONS in debt! They price fix for half of the things they do, and they can’t even break even! It doesn’t matter what industry you are in. If you have a monopoly, it is nearly impossible to accomplish this unless you are entirely devoid of any sense at all! They’re even tax subisidized for christ’s sake!“Setting aside that increase in demand inevitably leads to increase in supply, hospitals are already burdened by having to treat people (badly, in emergency rooms which usually don’t actually fix them) for free, which causes their expenses to increase and everyone’s insurance costs to go up.  Won’t paying for those peoples’ healthcare relieve them of that burden, lower everyone’s premiums, and give hospitals more revenue to expand their staff?”This is difficult to even approach, because it demonstrates how very little you know of economics. When costs dissappear, demand becomes infinite. It is the low deductible environment created by Medicare/Medicaid/SS that has run these institutions into the ground. People today come to the ER for every headache, cough, and spider bite. Then they get angry when the MD tells them to go home and sleep! They still visited, the government still pays! Do you think if these people had to pay more than $20 (or anything at all) for that visit, they may have stayd home and drank some orange juice!?This is why rationing occurs, because infinite demand will always exceed supply! Price fixing only goes so far. Why do you think that Europeans don’t see 40-60% of their income? Why are vehicles a luxuary item there, yet something plenty fo 16 year olds can afford in the USA?The situation is, that people don’t want to prioritize. They want 2 cars, they want to go out on the town every weekend, eat out 3+ nights a week, have every newest electronic fad and convienience, then wonder why they have no savings to put forth towards college or health insurance! No! Instead they cry that things costs to much, and demand that SOME ELSE pay for THEM.You know how I pay for my medical coverage and college? I worked and saved for years before I even graduated high school. I moved from one coast to another where I found a more affordable college. I live modestly and well within my means. I took some time off from school and became a Paramedic so that I could both work a job that could finance and cooperate with school. I save much of everything.Guess who I have burdened? Not one person. I succeed because I wasn’t brought into the fold of this culture of government dependence and personal ineptitude that rewards complacence and inability whilst punishing the opposite. Name one thing I have done that any other person couldn’t do themselves.And stow your flawed moral rhetoric with all of your other failed pinko ideologies. I started as a Nursing student so I could join the Peace Corps. After working as a medic to gain experience in my future field, I learned how very limited nurses are in both scope and knowledge. Daily I am frustrated by the fact that I can’t help my patients to the full extent at which I am capable because of my limited scope/education. That’s why I switched to BioChemistry so I could become a fucking MD. Once I’m a doctor, I’ll be able to do everything humanly possible for my patients.You know what the great part is? I’ll be helping people and living my dream with EVER ONCE having STOLEN or COHERCED another human being! My morality doesn’t kill liberty, doesn’t steal, doesn’t choose for others against their will, and keeps people accountable to themselves. So fuck you!Your morality is weak, your economics are oblivious, and you know absolutely nothing of medicine. I wish you much success on your beligerant march to destroy us all with your ignorant and musguided altruism. May the Great Federal Government answer your bedside prayers!

Speak yer mind.

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s