RE: An Open Letter To President Obama

Someone made a blog with this title and I wrote this comment.  I took a little more time than usual to write it, so I thought I’d post it here in case he reads the first line and deletes it, as is the norm on these types of blogs.

Dear President Obama:

“You are the thirteenth President under whom I have lived and unlike any of the others, you truly scare me.”

Because you are not exactly like me.  Things that are not exactly like me frighten me.

“You scare me because after months of exposure, I know nothing about you.”

Because fox news doesn’t ever show your regular townhalls, interviews and press conferences where you answer pointed questions about your beliefs and policies, because they would dispel the fear-mongering mythology of a ruthless unreasonable dictator they are weaving.

“You scare me because I do not know how you paid for your expensive Ivy League education and your upscale lifestyle and housing with no visible signs of support.”

You are frightened because of your own ignorance.  I don’t know how most presidents paid for their educations.  I wouldn’t be frightened unless I actually had some reason to suppose they had done something nefarious.

“You scare me because you did not spend the formative years of youth growing up in America and culturally you are not an American.”

So you become formative at the age of 7?  Again, things that are not exactly like you frighten and confuse you.  Obama doesn’t speak with an accent or worship vishnu or eat strange food, but because he’s been out of the country he’s not an american.  He’s got a law degree from harvard, fought for americans’ civil rights, taught constitutional law in college, served in congress and is the president of the fucking united states.  How much more american do you want him to be?  You need him to shit american flags or something?

“You scare me because you have never run a company or met a payroll.”

He never ran a company, but neither have most presidents.  He did however work for a financial firm and edit their financial publication, and he’s got people with nobel prizes advising him.

“You scare me because you have never had military experience, thus don’t understand it at its core.”

You know he’s got admirals and four star generals advising him, right?

“You scare me because you lack humility and ‘class’, always blaming others.”

I don’t even know where you’re getting this.  I listen to the man speak to decide what kind of person he is, you listen to glenn beck talk about him, and make stuff up.

“You scare me because for over half your life you have aligned yourself with radical extremists who hate America and you refuse to publicly denounce these radicals who wish to see America fail.”

Not actually.  Fox news is just good at weaving a good yarn.

“You scare me because you are a cheerleader for the ‘blame America’ crowd and deliver this message abroad.”

Actually he said america has made mistakes and then denounced europeans for being anti-american.  Fox news only played the first part of the sound bite and turned “america isn’t golden and perfect” into blaming america, “apologizing” for america etc.  Taking things out of context is just another form of lying.

“You scare me because you want to change America to a European style country where the government sector dominates instead of the private sector.”

No, he’s trying to create a public option to insure those that private insurers can’t make any money off of (like the elderly are under medicare), and let others opt into it so that private insurers which charge <i>double</i> what healthcare costs and don’t cover everything will have to lower their prices and stop ripping YOU off.

“You scare me because you want to replace our health care system with a government controlled one.”

Not in reality.  That’s just the fox news version of reality.  Btw reagan said the same things about medicare/medicaid that people are saying about the public option, that it will be some slippery slope to our dooooom!  It wasn’t.  They’re just using fear to control you.

“You scare me because you prefer ‘wind mills’ to responsibly
capitalizing on our own vast oil, coal and shale reserves.”

Um, no, he said he would accept more domestic drilling, but only as a larger plan to make us dependent of mid-east oil since domestic drilling alone doesn’t come close to addressing the problem.  We give billions of dollars to regimes like the taliban by buying oil from their countries, he’s trying to de-fund these regimes through advancing our technology to make YOU safer, and you’re “afraid” of him for it.  Why?  Because you’ve been told to be. 

None of these opinions are you own opinions, they’re all things people have told you to think.

“You scare me because you want to kill the American capitalist goose that lays the golden egg which provides the highest standard of living in the world.”

Again, no.  The idea that anyone is trying to kill america is just ridiculous rhetoric used to avoid talking about the actual issues.

“You scare me because you have begun to use ‘extortion’ tactics against certain banks and corporations.”

Ronald Regean told the air traffic controllers that were on strike “if you don’t come back to work on monday you’re fired”.  He had no legal authority to do this. 

Obama, however, does have legal authority to withhold bailout money to banks that do not change the policies and policy makers that <i>almost destroyed our economy.</i>

“You scare me because your own political party shrinks from challenging you on your wild and irresponsible spending proposals.”

What wild and irresponsible spending proposals are those?  My guess is you’ve been given some information that isn’t quite accurate, like glenn beck saying he’s given his “private army” americorps (the domestic equivalent to the peace corps, they organize volunteers to tutor kids etc, it has nothing to do with the military), that he’s given them “half a trillion dollars”, when actually he got them 1/500th that in funding, or a little over 1 billion a year.  When will you realize beck and the rest are making shit up. 

Go to fox news and search “americorps budget”, even fox news doesn’t agree with fox news.

“You scare me because you will not openly listen to or even consider opposing points of view from intelligent people.”

Actually again this is the perception you get when you don’t listen to the man and only listen to the dishonest commentary about the man.  He’s done countless townhalls, meetings, interviews and press conferences where he’s subjected himself to all kinds of questions about himself, his policies etc, and he’s actually notoriously respectful and never gets angry with people.  Seriously, go on youtube and listen to the man actually answer questions.

“You scare me because you falsely believe that you are both omnipotent and omniscient.”

This is just stupid.

“You scare me because the media gives you a free pass on everything you do.”

Um, no.  Fox news gets more viewers than almost every other news network combined and they are bent on his total destruction, and there are left-leaning and right-leaning shows on the other networks, and even the left-leaning ones criticize the president.  This is just something conservatives say, it’s not really true.  Fox news says “the news media gives obama a free pass” when they are the <i>dominant force in the news media.</i>

The other day glenn beck denounced msnbc for being in rockafeller square saying there is communist symbolism on the walls of some of the buildings.  Um, fox news HQ is one of those buildings built by the architect that built all of them.

“You scare me because you demonize and want to silence the Limbaughs, Hannitys, O’Relllys and Becks who offer opposing, conservative points of view.”

Quote him.  There’s a big difference between demonizing someone and disagreeing with them.  Beck, hannity, limbaugh and oreilly ironically <i>all</i> demonize people who disagree with them, especially the president.

“You scare me because you prefer controlling over governing.”

No, don’t you see that is the spin they are putting on reasonable policies.  It’s like you tried to feed the homeless and pass out bologna sandwiches to people with nothing to eat, and I spun it as “see, he’s trying to CONTROL what people get to eat!  This is america, how dare he take away people’s choices!”  Giving health insurance to those with none at all isn’t “controlling” people, and improving health insurance and lowering costs for everyone isn’t fascism either, it’s an attempt to remove a gigantic drain on our economy.

“Finally, you scare me because if you serve a second term I will
probably not feel safe in writing a similar letter in 8 years.”

This is because of your own paranoia and fascination with fox news, not because of anything the president has done.  People showed up at his events with loaded automatic weapons and signs advocating political assasination, and he erred on free speech.  That you think you’re going to be thrown in some obama gulag because you have a blog on xanga is nothing but paranoia.

“Lou Pritchett”

Mark on xanga.

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About agnophilo

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89 Responses to RE: An Open Letter To President Obama

  1. SoullFire says:

    @PuttinOut – I’m curious- since you disapprove of everything Obama has done, what should have been his response to helping the economy after he took office?

  2. agnophilo says:

    @Connorryan – I agree.@PuttinOut –  “Irest my point.  Your uninformed rebuttal to anything anyone says aboutObama is completely one sided and ignorant.”  Opinions and assholes…”Your point that he isholding the economey together is completely unfounded.  What has hedone to deserve this title?”  Presided over the aftermath of the largest economic collapse since the great depression.”The stimulus bill was a joke that pouredmoney into the economy that we basically had to borrow from a differentcountry for project that were short termed to say the least.  The moneyis almost all gone and the economy did not get any better. ” As I said in my previous response you dishonest fuckwhit, the stimulus bill was designed to lessen the severity of the hit, not fix the economy over night, and it has been successful in doing just that.”Yet hisspending plan is documented to put the country in debt every year forthe next 10 years at the least without some other type ofintervention(Read up on it).”  He inherited a huge recession and a budget that was 1 trillion dollars a year over budget.  The problem was already there, he did not invent it.  And he is doing what every economist in the country is telling him to do which is try to get the economy to a place where we can begin to cut spending as the recession recedes, because a recession itself is caused by not enough people spending money.  When the economy becomes certain and banks are no longer lending, everyone spends less money, which means that over night every company is selling half as much of every product.  Which means they can’t afford to keep all of their employees and they lay people off, and then all those people aren’t spending money because they’re out of work, so there’s even less demand, which leads to more layoffs, which leads to less demand and more layoffs, which means less demand, more layoffs, less demand, more layoffs in a never-ending spiral which causes a great depression and fucks over an entire country.  The only way to stop that from happening is for the government to inject a bunch of money into the economy to help keep demand up until people start spending and trading stocks and banks start lending again.  So obama did the stim bill to expand food stamps and unemployment payments and other benefits to inject money into all the markets people buy things in.  The point was to spend a lot of money so that every industry doesn’t up and crash at the same time.You are an ignorant fool however, who has no idea about any of this and thinks the stim bill was a wild card designed to make the country magically all better again.”His only excuse is to cut spendingelsewhere but he never says where,” Actually he’s cited specific spending cuts to pay for the new spending, you’re just uninformed.”yet he continues to spend on moreprojects that cannot be sustained without immediatly increasingtaxes(which if you hadnt noticed check cigarette, sodas, guns,….).” The gun tax thing is a myth, it has no basis in fact.  The cigarette tax was awhile ago and the soda thing was just proposed by congress.  It’s not a part of how he intends to pay for the public option.”His interviews, pressconferences is a joke because its all about hisagenda and not the peoples.”  More dishonesty.  I said interviews, townhall meetings and press conferences.  Answering pointed questions from reporters and doing townhall meetings isn’t about the people?  What the fuck are you smoking?”Read the latest polls, his popularity isdown from 65% to under 50% in six months.  So you obvously belong tothe minority.”  Actually it’s 55% and bottomed out at 50% this last week, then went back up as it goes up and down and up and down.  I am in the majority, you just use polls like rasmussen that are infamous for skewing toward republicans.  The guy who runs the poll did private polling for the bush campaign, whereas the guy who runs the poll I use (gallup) has been running his poll for decades and never polled for any party or candidate, because it makes his poll’s credibility questionable.”He is not trying to fix healthcare he is trying toremake healthcare at a time the economy does not want it or can handlethe change due to the recession.”Yes, because I’m sure the american people having a trillion extra dollars in their pockets each year that they spend on healthcare above and beyond what they do in other 1st world countries would just crush the economy.”Its so much more than asimple one sided mind like you can handle.  Its not about liking him orhis popularity, its about his ability.  You cannot deny the facts ilisted but as an Obama supporter you will find EXCUSES for every oneand take anything out of concept and use tunnel vision so you cant seeanything else.  I thought you had a mind on you but I now understandthat you will not have a logical argument or try to see anything in adifferent way.”Blah blah blah.  I’m an asshole, if I disagree with you it’s an “excuse”, not a basis for an opinion.  Whatever.”just saying i think your wrong..is a waste of evryones time..”.  IGNORANT AND UNINSIGHTFUL!”Have a nice day.

  3. sophia says:

    it’s sad what these people believe.@LydJaGillers – i blocked the fox news channel on one of my TVs so i wouldn’t have to scroll past it when i opened the guide. đŸ˜€ but it’s not blocked on the other because sometimes i’m curious. haha

  4. FalconBridge says:

    @LydJaGillers – where I work that’s the channel the tv in the break room is on, no one is allowed to change it.  Guess it’s a good thing I always bring a book to read.

  5. agnophilo says:

    @sophia – I switched from cable to satellite so the channel numbers changed, and fox news channel is number 360.  The only number that actually means “spin”.I think someone in the channel planning office is probably laughing their ass off.@FalconBridge – Yeah, where I used to live the grocery store I went to had like 10 tvs by the checkout and all of them were always tuned to fox news.Fuck people, you know?

  6. Katie says:

    Ummm i dont exactly love obama but hes not the worst president ever! Its like everyones prejudice or something! What the heck!!!

  7. Obama is George Bush Jr. with a tan. The only thing Obama has not endorsed, supported, defended, and furthered that was created/incepted by Bush was banning Federal tax dollars from being used to fund stem cell research and abortions.Everything else, including wiretapping, abuse of state secrecy, foreign wars, bombing pakistanis, bailouts, welfare programs, support for torture, nullifying habeas corpus and other civil liberties, immunity for tax-cheats, immunity for companies that committed illegal acts in cooperation with the government, and even the continued existence of Guantanamo–all identical to Bush’s actions.Change you can believe in.That’s why I fear him.

  8. agnophilo says:

    @Katie – Yeah, a lot of people are going to just hate him no matter what he does because he’s not a white fundamentalist pro-life republican.@Magniloquentia – To think his position on all those things is the same as bush is just ignorance.  He’s been a bit busy with this thing called the economy and healthcare reform, it isn’t politically or legally possible to just undo everything the bush administration did over the course of a decade in 6 months.  If it were the bush administration would have done ten times as much shit.

  9. GodAintGood says:

    @radicalramblings – yay for you for again being a large rather shit filled asshole!

  10. @agnophilo – He’s signed papers affirming those programs and stances created by Bush. It’s not so much as not having had time to undo them, but rather, endorsing them with his signature when it came time to renew them.Name any one of the things listed above, and I’ll show you where he became exactly like Bush once he got into office. It’s one of the major reasons why his popularity has been nose diving. Ignorance is the refusal to learn, and I have done no such thing. Obama is just like Bush because there is very little difference between Republicans and Democrats in Washington. I would examine your own stance before using that slur.

  11. agnophilo says:

    @Magniloquentia – Show me how he has “renewed” any of them.  He’s been hesitant to prosecute the bush administration because it would tie up his administration for months while the economy was on fire.  He’s still got 3 1/2 more years.

  12. SirNickDon says:

    I think you’ve got it just about right.

  13. Some of the comments here are as bad as the original blog this was extracted from. I haven’t seen this much baseless slander and unfair assumption since I accidentally turned on Fox News that one time. (I barely survived)And supposedly I’m crazy? These people need a doctor more than I do.

  14. @agnophilo – So Obama isn’t like Bush? I imagine no matter what I say, or what evidence presented, Obama will still be your anointed messiah. So how about a source as reputable as the NY Times? Domestic Spying; apparently Obama likes it, just like Bush–despite what he said during his campaign.http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/us/politics/02fisa.htmlAnything else? Articles supporting/proving everything I’ve said here are not difficult to find. You can even search from them yourself with a great deal of ease.

  15. agnophilo says:

    @ElliottStrange – Yeah it’s pretty bad. So much hatred…Racism didn’t go away in the 60’s, it just shut up for awhile.@Magniloquentia – Sorry, but even though I disagree with giving the telecomm’s immunity, that doesn’t mean he has kept or expanded domestic warantless wiretapping as you claimed.If the NSA comes to you just after 9/11 and says they need to tap some phones in the interests of national security, how many people would have to wherewithal to say no?

  16. agnophilo says:

    @Magniloquentia – Oh, and you can cut it out with that annointed one messiah shit. 

  17. @agnophilo – I just proved to you how Obama lied about a campaign promise, and then decided that the illegal power Bush was exercising was only illegal until he held the power himself. Yet, you still adore him and only get angry at me.Do you think anything else on that list isn’t as easily proven?We have drones raining death on innocent Pakistanis if we have the slightest inclination that they disagree with us raining death on foreigners. President Obama could stop that with a phone call. Wouldnt’ even need to go through the trouble of writing an executive order. Death still falls, and Obama supports still cheers as profusely as ever.Obamas policies are just like Bush’s. I challenge you. Pick one off of that list and research it. I dare you. You won’t though. Despite the fact that I think that there is no difference between Rep/Dem., or that I just proved you wrong and vindicated my own argument, you’ll just think of me as a rascist Good ‘ol boy and go back to Obama’s chorus section.What else should I call Obama other than, “Your annointed messiah”. He clearly can’t do any wrong to you–even if he mimicks the prince of darnkess preceeding him which garnered so much loathing from you.

  18. Jimbo1023 says:

    I’m mostly scared that when I finally find time to read all of these comments, they will have doubled and I’ll never finish!

  19. agnophilo says:

    @Magniloquentia – I said that I disagree with that obama decision and that you haven’t supported your claims that he’s still illegally wiretapping people, and you read that as I worship obama, he can do no wrong and I’m not acknowledging what you say.You’re wasting my time.  Actually support your claims or go away please.So far as using drones, bush wasn’t attacked for fighting the war, he was attacked for stopping the war.  To suggest that because obama is still using drones in the war that that means his policies are identical to bush is idiotic.

  20. agnophilo says:

    @Jimbo1023 – Now you know how I feel, I respond to a group of them and half the time there are more comments!Getting featured is even worse, it’s practically a day job.

  21. @agnophilo – Right, the Obama administration won’t abuse that illegal power he now defends the ability to still use. Bush didn’t abuse it either.Obama inhereted an illegal war, so now he has no choice to continue it, versus end it immediately–another contradiction to his campaign. The Murder Pakistani program only started a couple months before Obama took office. Only 3 attacks were executed by Bush. We are not at war with 13th century Pakistanis. Therefore, he must continue hailing death on them?That’s like me inherenting a house from a dead relative which contains a methamphetamine laboratory. Instead of getting rid of it, I must now own and operate the drug factory because I own the house. Pardon?Yet again, more evidence.Obama claims Torture and government secrecy are unAmerican.http://www.barackobama.com/2007/10/04/obama_torture_and_secrecy_betr.phpObama Invokes State Secrecy about torture and extradition–just like Bush:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/us/10torture.htmlObama disallows the CIA from running prisons, but allows the FBI, NSA, Homeland Security, and all branches of the military to have secret prisons.http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12041Obama supports illegal wiretapping, contradicting his campaign stance–Just like Bush:http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/us/politics/02fisa.htmlObama wants to end the illegal wars during his campaign, yet wants even more troops in the middle east indefinately after shuffling little over 50% of them from Iraq to Afghanistan…exactly like Bush.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/4860625/Barack-Obama-to-pull-US-troops-out-of-Iraq-by-2010.htmlObama denies Habeas Corpus, a Constitutional right–despite the courts ruling–identical to Bush.http://www.ijnetwork.org/content/view/140/38/Obama permits arbitrarily hailing death of innocent Pakistanis–Bush created this program.http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5575883.eceBailouts–Went even further than Bush.http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12266Obama is swimming in Tax Cheats:http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/02/another-tax-pro.htmlHow’s that for proof? Point by point.Just.Like.Bush.

  22. These bitches are just too persistent…I’m glad there are people like you that can stand up intelligently against this slander.- John

  23. agnophilo says:

    @Magniloquentia – “Right, the Obama administration won’tabuse that illegal power he now defends the ability to still use. Bushdidn’t abuse it either.”You have not supported this allegation.”Obama inhereted an illegal war, sonow he has no choice to continue it, versus end it immediately–anothercontradiction to his campaign.” Sorry, but you can’t just push the “off” switch on a war and hope a country will magically reboot.”The Murder Pakistani program onlystarted a couple months before Obama took office. Only 3 attacks wereexecuted by Bush. We are not at war with 13th century Pakistanis.Therefore, he must continue hailing death on them?”Characterizing military strikes as murder doesn’t make them so.  In war people die.  If you’re suggesting these strikes are war crimes then make that charge.”That’slike me inherenting a house from a dead relative which contains amethamphetamine laboratory. Instead of getting rid of it, I must nowown and operate the drug factory because I own the house. Pardon?”No, that is an asinine comparison.  We bombed the shit out of two countries, we have a moral obligation to try to clean up the mess we’ve made.  Not to mention maybe actually get osama.”Yet again, more evidence.”Not really.”Obama claims Torture and government secrecy are unAmerican.http://www.barackobama.com/2007/10/04/obama_torture_and_secrecy_betr.php  Obama Invokes State Secrecy about torture and extradition–just like Bush:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/us/10torture.html“In your bent perspective there is no difference between torturing people to death (what bush did) and opposing a lawsuit against people suing an airline for helping to transport prisoners (which is what obama did).”Obamadisallows the CIA from running prisons, but allows the FBI, NSA,Homeland Security, and all branches of the military to have secretprisons.http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12041No, this is just stupid.  He issued an executive order forcing the CIA to shut down their illegal prisons, the fact that he didn’t admonish every government agency to do the same to their non-existent secret prisons isn’t license to have secret prisons.  What a dumbass argument.”Obama supports illegal wiretapping, contradicting his campaign stance–Just like Bush:http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/us/politics/02fisa.htmlI’ve addressed this twice already, you dishonest shitbag.”Obamawants to end the illegal wars during his campaign, yet wants even moretroops in the middle east indefinately after shuffling little over 50%of them from Iraq to Afghanistan…exactly like Bush.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/4860625/Barack-Obama-to-pull-US-troops-out-of-Iraq-by-2010.htmlI’m not even bothering with this one.  You honestly can’t see any moral difference between blowing up a country and trying to restore order before leaving?”Obama denies Habeas Corpus, a Constitutional right–despite the courts ruling–identical to Bush.http://www.ijnetwork.org/content/view/140/38/Actually he asked the courts to hold off on letting these handful of prisoners go to give the new administration time to process the prisoners and assess their legal status, as well as releasing the bulk of them.  He wanted to have guantanamo empty by now but as the process went on they realized what a clusterfuck it was from the last administration, they had evidence for the detainees just lying around in bags not even labeled and crap like that.  So it’s taking longer.You are insisting that the administration that is trying to sort out the problem and empty these prisons is morally identical to the one that built them, which is just stupid.”Obama permits arbitrarily hailing death of innocent Pakistanis–Bush created this program.http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5575883.eceAttacking military targets is by definition not arbitrary.  You act as if they’re sending off bottle rockets with TNT into pakistani suburbs, because you are a lying douche.”Bailouts–Went even further than Bush.http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12266Uh huh.  Because like with the wars he was faced with the option to a) go through with a bad plan and try to make it work or b) pull out and undo any good that’s been done and let hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars evaporate into thin air.”Obama is swimming in Tax Cheats:http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/02/another-tax-pro.html“You can’t support your claims so now you’re just bashing him randomly.  Yes, some of the over 1,000 people in his administration had back taxes.  Get over it.”How’s that for proof? “Point by point. “Just.  “Like.  “Bush.”Inyourdeludeddreams.

  24. @agnophilo – Oh my god. I’m honestly stunned. I’ve just given you complete evidence that Obama has continue everything Bush was hated for, and you think all of it is just….o.k. I’m not sure you can be reasoned with. Your arguments aren’t being based on anything logical, legal, or factual/historical. Your cultist like enthrallment is so complete that it honestly frightens me alittle. “Sorry, but you can’t just push the “off” switch on a war and hope a country will magically reboot.”That’s entirely irrelevant. The occupation and war is illegitimate. The problems facing Iraqis can only be solved by Iraqis. Having an occupying military force not only draws the most violent and extremist jihadists from around the world to Iraq, but gives them reason to exist. The US military is in fact destabilizing the region mere by being there–at the tremendous cost of US life, wealth, and reputation. Walking is away immediately from Iraq & Afghanistan is the best possible solution. Kurdistan is a great example of this.“Characterizing military strikes as murder doesn’t make them so.  In war people die.  If you’re suggesting these strikes are war crimes then make that charge.”“Kill one man and you’re a murder, kill 1,000 and you’re a king.” We are not at war with Pakistan, yet we kill scores of their people any time we have the slightest hunch one man in a building might disagree with rampant militarism. I might consider it a war crime if we were at war with them. However, we’re not, so it’s just murder.“No, that is an asinine comparison.  We bombed the shit out of two countries, we have a moral obligation to try to clean up the mess we’ve made.  Not to mention maybe actually get osama.”No it’s not. You reason that Bush got us into this illegal war, so Obama must continue to endorse an endless illegal war of aggression. That is patently false, and makes no moral sense at all. The region will cannot and will never recover until the United States and Nato occupiers vacate first.“In your bent perspective there is no difference between torturing people to death (what bush did) and opposing a lawsuit against people suing an airline for helping to transport prisoners (which is what obama did).”This is no different from the Telecom issue. They knowingly complied with an illegal action, and are made co-conspiritors, or a willing accessory to a crime at best.“No, this is just stupid.  He issued an executive order forcing the CIA to shut down their illegal prisons, the fact that he didn’t admonish every government agency to do the same to their non-existent secret prisons isn’t license to have secret prisons.  What a dumbass argument.”Yes, the CIA and only the CIA. You think they are the only agency to have these kinds of detention facilities? Where do you think detainees went after the CIA prisons got shut down, Disney Land? Likewise, the same order was supposed to ban torture, but only bans a couple specific techniques, and only for people “captured in armed conflict”. Anyone capture not in an armed conflict, or labelled terrorist still has no rights, and is still fair game under the EO.“I’ve addressed this twice already, you dishonest shitbag.”Yes, you said that you disagreed with Obama flipping stances, and that it was perfectly ok to ignore the law if someone threatened you with a scary hypothetical.“Actually he asked the courts to hold off on letting these handful of prisoners go to give the new administration time to process the prisoners and assess their legal status, as well as releasing the bulk of them.  He wanted to have guantanamo empty by now but as the process went on they realized what a clusterfuck it was from the last administration, they had evidence for the detainees just lying around in bags not even labeled and crap like that.  So it’s taking longer.”Right. The US has no legal authority to detain foreign citizens and hold them indefinately without charge or trial. It’s obviously much too difficult to put them on an airplane and drop them off in the country and province they were kidnapped in.“Attacking military targets is by definition not arbitrary.  You act as if they’re sending off bottle rockets with TNT into pakistani suburbs, because you are a lying douche.”Actually, I’m saying much worse than that. They’re using the most expensive, lethal, and sophisticated technology to sentence people to death without charging them for a crime and without a trial. Any bystanders are also judged inherently guilty and sentenced to death as well. Did I mention that we are not at war with Pakistan? Likewise, we are neither legally/declaredly at war with Iraq or Afghanistan either. Futhermore, it’s all very very true.“Uh huh.  Because like with the wars he was faced with the option to a) go through with a bad plan and try to make it work or b) pull out and undo any good that’s been done and let hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars evaporate into thin air.”You seem to have forgotten, but it was Obama who temporarily suspended his presidential campaign to advocate the very first bank bailout. He stood right along side with Bush and McCain and advocated the very first bailout. Nevermind that they achieved absolutely no good and only served to devalue the dollar, explode the defecit, and steal money from everyday people and give them to stupid CEOs. I’m only illustrating here that Obama has taken nearly all of the same stances Bush.“You can’t support your claims so now you’re just bashing him randomly.  Yes, some of the over 1,000 people in his administration had back taxes.  Get over it.”I’ve supported every single one with pure fact. Every time I do you just get angry and say, “you can’t prove anything” and then ignore all of it. I can say with much certainty that you didn’t read a single one of those articles, and if so, no more than the title. There is no way you could read any of that and still not think Obama’s policies aren’t even in the slighest manner simular to Bush’s, let alone a mere continuation of them.It’s ironic really. You’re just like the NeoCons that defended Bush every time he did something illegal and/or ignored the Constitution. You’ll defend Obama to the very end simply because he’s your champion–no matter what evidence proves otherwise. That is why I call him your messiah.

  25. @agnophilo – Racism won’t go away until it’s made punishable by a severe public beating with a sack full of glass shards…. or, you know, until we stop teaching our children that race is a massive issue.

  26. agnophilo says:

    @Magniloquentia – “Oh my god. I’m honestly stunned. I’vejust given you complete evidence that Obama has continue everythingBush was hated for, and you think all of it is just….o.k.” Actually no, you haven’t.”I’m notsure you can be reasoned with. Your arguments aren’t being based onanything logical, legal, or factual/historical. Your cultist likeenthrallment is so complete that it honestly frightens me alittle.”Oh go fuck yourself.  Cultist like enthrallment?  All I’ve said is that you haven’t supported your position that obama is still illegally wiretapping and doing everything bush did.  You can’t debate properly so you resort to ad homs.”That’sentirely irrelevant. The occupation and war is illegitimate. Theproblems facing Iraqis can only be solved by Iraqis.” They don’t have an effective police force or a functional standing army because we destroyed the one they had.  And you want to leave so they can “solve their problems”.”Having anoccupying military force not only draws the most violent and extremistjihadists from around the world to Iraq, but gives them reason toexist.”  That is a valid point, but I don’t think dropping the ball and letting the country descend into even more chaos is the solution.”The US military is in fact destabilizing the region mere bybeing there–at the tremendous cost of US life, wealth, and reputation.Walking is away immediately from Iraq & Afghanistan is the bestpossible solution. Kurdistan is a great example of this.”Kudistan isn’t even a country, wtf are you talking about?”Kill one man and you’re a murder, kill1,000 and you’re a king.” We are not at war with Pakistan, yet we killscores of their people any time we have the slightest hunch one man ina building might disagree with rampant militarism. I might consider ita war crime if we were at war with them. However, we’re not, so it’sjust murder.”Setting aside that obama is not a king, nor have these drone attacks along the border killed a thousand people in pakistan, the places being targeted are actual military targets in the war we’re fighting.  They are also militants that are a problem for pakistan, some of whom have killed hundreds more pakistanis than our drones have killed, and we are giving pakistan billions of dollars in aid to help fight them as well.  You can’t act like obama is sitting in his office saying “mwahahahaha, who will I murder today?””No it’s not. You reason that Bush got usinto this illegal war, so Obama must continue to endorse an endlessillegal war of aggression.” No, that isn’t what I said, you’re a dishonest fuck.”That is patently false, and makes no moralsense at all. The region will cannot and will never recover until theUnited States and Nato occupiers vacate first.”I think they need an actual army before we can do that.”Thisis no different from the Telecom issue. They knowingly complied with anillegal action, and are made co-conspiritors, or a willing accessory toa crime at best.”Once again, don’t acknowledge my response and repeat yourself.  No, airliners that are paid to transport prisoners for the CIA didn’t fucking torture them.  Nor are they privy to the details of their arrest and legal status you moron.”Yes, the CIA andonly the CIA. You think they are the only agency to have these kinds ofdetention facilities?” Tell me please which other agencies have secret torture dungeons.”Where do you think detainees went after the CIAprisons got shut down, Disney Land?”They haven’t been shut down yet.  But over 2/3 of the people in guantanamo have been released and some are living quite well.”Likewise, the same order wassupposed to ban torture, but only bans a couple specific techniques,and only for people “captured in armed conflict”. This is the language that you and your lame ass article claim doesn’t ban all torture:”Consistent with the requirements of the Federal torture statute, . . .the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005, . . . the [United Nations]Convention Against Torture, [the Geneva Conventions] Common Article 3,and other laws regulating the treatment and interrogation ofindividuals detained in any armed conflict, such persons shallin all circumstances be treated humanely and shall not be subjected toviolence to life and person (including murder of all kinds, mutilation,cruel treatment, and torture), nor to outrages upon personal dignity(including humiliating and degrading treatment), whenever suchindividuals are in the custody or under the effective control of anofficer, employee, or other agent of the United States Government ordetained within a facility owned, operated, or controlled by adepartment or agency of the United States“I’ll say it again.  You are a dishonest fuck.So far as the “in any armed conflict” part, it says that because that is the language of the laws they are invoking, dumbass.  Not to mention that torture is already forbidden by the US constitution and international treaty, so this is redundant anyway.”Anyone capture not inan armed conflict, or labelled terrorist still has no rights, and isstill fair game under the EO.”Bullshit.”Yes,you said that you disagreed with Obama flipping stances, and that itwas perfectly ok to ignore the law if someone threatened you with ascary hypothetical.”No, I didn’t you dishonest fuckwhit asshole. You cannot support your original position so you put words in my mouth, change your argument every 2 seconds and lie lie lie.”Right. The US has nolegal authority to detain foreign citizens and hold them indefinatelywithout charge or trial. It’s obviously much too difficult to put themon an airplane and drop them off in the country and province they werekidnapped in.”You know some of the people in these prisons actually planned 9/11 right?  They’re not all actually innocent, and we’d like to hold onto some of them.  The problem is the bush team fucked things up so badly it’s hard to figure out who should be in there and who shouldn’t.  So they’re processing them before letting them go.”Actually, I’m saying much worse than that.They’re using the most expensive, lethal, and sophisticated technologyto sentence people to death without charging them for a crime andwithout a trial. Any bystanders are also judged inherently guilty andsentenced to death as well. Did I mention that we are not at war withPakistan? Likewise, we are neither legally/declaredly at war with Iraqor Afghanistan either. Futhermore, it’s all very very true.”You truly are a fucking moron.  No one in war is put on trial and found guilty before being killed, unless they are a POW.”You seem to haveforgotten, but it was Obama who temporarily suspended his presidentialcampaign to advocate the very first bank bailout.  He stood right alongside with Bush and McCain and advocated the very first bailout.Nevermind that they achieved absolutely no good and only served todevalue the dollar, explode the defecit, and steal money from everydaypeople and give them to stupid CEOs. I’m only illustrating here thatObama has taken nearly all of the same stances Bush.”His position all along was that AIG needed to be bailed out because the way it was set up it was connected to too many other things and if it collapsed entirely threatened to do massive damage to our economy, but that he didn’t think a lot of the other banks should have been bailed out.  So you go and blame him for the whole thing.  You are also blaming every bad thing that happened with the economy to the bank bailout, as if the economy hadn’t nearly imploded just before that.”I’ve supported every singleone with pure fact.” No, you have given facts that do not support your original position.  There is a big difference.Your mother is a whore.  I will now prove this by demonstrating that your mother has been paid money at some point in her life.See?  Fact that doesn’t support your original claim.I’m holding you to all the bullshit you posted on my blog when this little tiff started.”Every time I do you just get angry and say, “youcan’t prove anything” and then ignore all of it.” Haven’t said that once you dishonest shitbag.”I can say with muchcertainty that you didn’t read a single one of those articles, and ifso, no more than the title.” Again with dishonest shitbaggery.  I’ve read each one and responded to the content of each one, which you have ignored.  You know that I read the articles because I responded to a lot more than the titles, but you lie lie lie to try to win this stupid little argument.”There is no way you could read any of thatand still not think Obama’s policies aren’t even in the slighest mannersimular to Bush’s, let alone a mere continuation of them.”I didn’t say they weren’t.  I said they are not identical, which is your bullshit claim.  If they’re written in the same language as bush’s policies they are similar.  You are claiming bush and obama are carbon copies, which is just stupid.  And to support it you are comparing like and unlike.”It’sironic really. You’re just like the NeoCons that defended Bush everytime he did something illegal and/or ignored the Constitution. You’lldefend Obama to the very end simply because he’s your champion–nomatter what evidence proves otherwise. That is why I call him yourmessiah.”I’m arguing against your bullshit claims and trying not to let you change the subject.  Nowhere have I said “oh dear lord obama, deliver us from evil and we shall worship you!  Praise obama, praise obama!”You are just an ad-hom delivering douchebag liar who can’t admit when they’re wrong.

  27. agnophilo says:

    @ElliottStrange – Well that’s the thing, racism doesn’t go away because racist people see the light, it goes away because they’re intimidated into shutting up about it long enough for it not to get passed onto our children.  Now with the right wing stirring it up again and seemingly making it okay and mainstream to be xenophobic and against minorities, it might be another few generations before we really move past this shit.

  28. @agnophilo – I don’t think it will truly go away until complete amalgamation sets in. 

  29. @agnophilo – Racial amalgamation. There will come a point at which globalization will hit an apex and interracial breeding will bring everyone’s skin color to a neutral shade. It would take several centuries of course but it’s the only likely solution to the problem.

  30. agnophilo says:

    @ElliottStrange – There will still be regional differences and people will still hate anything different.I think we have to move past it on a society by society basis.

  31. It’s a shame Fox News actually supports Obama on his biggest blunder…Afghanistan. 

  32. agnophilo says:

    @Fletch_F_Fletch – Well they do love a good war.

  33. @agnophilo – Wow, he really can do no wrong to you. I’ll just say this, and I’ll leave it at this:Even if the Obama administration isn’t doing anything illegal, it has still defended the illegal actions of the Bush admnistration, and fought to keep the same illegal powers. The desire to maintain illegal power is expressing the desire to use illegal power in the future. Keep in mind that Bush wasn’t doing anything illegal either–until he was caught.He’s not getting us out of Iraq, he wants us to dig deeper into Afghanistan, he has no qualms with bombing Pakistanis (whom we are NOT at war with), invoked state secrets to protect the oligarchy, at least once given undeserved legal immunity, and found times where it is acceptable to susspend ignore The Bill of Rights/Constitution. He also supported plundering the taxpayer to enrich the elite. There is no such thing as too big too fail, what they did was pure theft of the common man.You say Obama’s hands are tied, and is just making due in chaos. Despite that no policy has changed, but only been supported and furthered, you say Obama has his reasons and that no ill has occured yet. It took people awhile to catch on the Bush, and he certainly had his reasons.Just beware.

  34. agnophilo says:

    @Magniloquentia – You don’t like obama, I get that.But you aren’t backing up your assertions with evidence.  Defending an airline company from liability for something the CIA did isn’t the same thing as condoning torture.You are saying that his policies on torture are identical to bush’s and to “prove” this claim you cite an article that mentions executive orders issued by the president to stop all forms of torture in all government agencies.You compare trying to shut down secret prisons to building them in the first place.Sorry, but if you disagree with him that’s fine, but the idea that he’s bush’s clone just isn’t supported by logic or evidence.

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