Abortion, yay!



I was rappin’ ’bout abortion with someone on xanga and said the following which I thought was blog-worthy:

I think the part of the abortion debate that causes pro-lifers to lose perspective is the insistence that they try to relate to and sympathize with a fetus from the moment of conception.  Sympathy is feeling someone else’s pain, empathy is putting yourself emotionally and intellectually in their position to decide what you would have someone do.  The problem with these is that you’re feeling the pain of something that can’t feel pain and putting yourself in the position of something that isn’t you.  That isn’t sentient.  If I were a tree I wouldn’t want someone to cut me down, but that isn’t an argument against deforestation.  See my point?

Abortion may be immoral, at some point I believe it’s even tantamount to murder in most cases.  But there is a whole helluvalot of wiggle room and grey area and room for debate, and in my experience anti-abortion folks usually don’t even show up for the debate, they just cut open their heart and bleed all over the stage.  They act like they’re in the fetus’ corner and protecting it’s will when up to a certain point it has no will.  Hell it might not even be capable of forming thoughts at all until after birth. 

When it comes to abortion, earlier is better and preventing the unwanted pregnancy all-together is fucking awesome.

About agnophilo

Nerd.
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78 Responses to Abortion, yay!

  1. @gene546 – agreed, it does have a rather important part to play in keeping population levels from plummeting and is the main artery through which natural selection works. 

  2. gene546 says:

    @agnophilo – Remember I was close to be a priest? Well those few women who went through that experience talked to me about their sense of guiltiness after an abortion. My answer was always: “God is prompt to pardon those who repent. So don’t accuse anyone, neither fundamentalists nor liberals, because abortion it is between woman and her conscience.

  3. gene546 says:

    @scruffylizard – What is “Natural Selection,” can you please elaborate. And also, who or what controls Natural Selection?

  4. gene546 says:

    @agnophilo – Very easy and crystal clear: are you the product of pure sex, into which love is not involved? Then, it fallows that sex without love it is the cause of so many abortions in our country. Your excuse is very old: money matters. I need to kill the pregnancy to get my goals. This thinking it is self centered egocentrism, isn’t it?

  5. gene546 says:

    @agnophilo – Mr. Obama is subsidizing abortion in México. he is using American dollars to pay for abortions outside our country.

  6. gene546 says:

    Explain to me what “Natural Selection is” and how it works?

  7. Shy___Away says:

    Firstly, I wouldn’t say that a fetus cannot feel pain, because I believe they’ve proved they can (but I think someone already said that). It would make your argument weaker should you be debating with that specific point.Secondly, I would DEFINITELY say that abortion is murder. If we’re going to charge a guy that kills a pregnant woman with double homicide, and if we’re going to say that the swimming pool of cells within a woman is alive, then yes, ending that life through abortion is murder.But sometimes, murder is ok. And this is one of those times.People value their babies because they’ve become part of the family unit, and part of a societal structure. This is why people get charged with murder should they end the life of an infant. When an infant is still in the womb, it doesn’t have that status yet, and Americans have indicated that they don’t want it to have that status yet. This isn’t a religious argument, this is a social argument, and nobody should make it more than that.

  8. Shy___Away says:

    @gene546 – You bring up that abortion is self-centered egocentrism- I don’t wish to offend, but I’d like to point out that believing in an all-powerful God that listens to you, cares deeply for you, and had his son killed for your sake is also rather self-centered. It’s all in perspective. Nobody *wants* to have an abortion. Not only are you ending the life of someone you could have been very close to, but it’s also compounding the fact that you don’t have the resources, a fact most are already ashamed of.

  9. agnophilo says:

    @Pandiie_Bear – No, it’s nuanced.  I have a similar position, judging from what you’ve told me.@And_I_love – I had a hunch you’d say that.

  10. Diva_Jyoti says:

    @agnophilo – well yeah, where else would something like that be?  encyclopedia? lol@gene546 – that is a hawking glob of horse shit you are saying about Obama paying for abortions in Mexico, you retardate!  Plus, you don’t know what natural selection is?  What, you didn’t complete Jr. High or what?

  11. agnophilo says:

    @gene546 – That’s a good response.  It’s good that you weren’t judgemental.I don’t think that’s a completely typical reaction to abortion though, to feel guilty and seek repentance.  It’s likely some women who received confession had had an abortion and didn’t bring it up.@gene546 – You’ve made like a hundred blogs attacking evolution and don’t know what natural selection is?@gene546 – You’ve stereotyping.  Women have abortions for many reasons whether or not the fetus is a product of love or marriage.@gene546 – I heard you the first time, do you have a source or article about this I can read?@gene546 – Natural selection is the fact that naturally occurring variations in DNA will be passed on to future generations more or less often (and become more or less common in the population) if they increase or decrease the rate of survival/reproduction of the organism.  If being taller makes an animal slightly more likely to survive (because perhaps it can reach more leaves and will be less likely to starve to death), then it will survive longer, that gene will be passed on more often and over time the average height of the population will increase.  This is almost identical to the process we use to create different dog breeds.@Shy___Away –  “Firstly,I wouldn’t say that a fetus cannot feel pain, because I believe they’veproved they can (but I think someone already said that). It would makeyour argument weaker should you be debating with that specific point.”At the end of the second trimester, yes.  I’m opposed to late-term abortions for this reason.”Secondly,I would DEFINITELY say that abortion is murder. If we’re going tocharge a guy that kills a pregnant woman with double homicide, and ifwe’re going to say that the swimming pool of cells within a woman isalive, then yes, ending that life through abortion is murder.”I don’t think we should charge them with double homicide.  Maybe it should be like hate-crimes legislation and we can add more years on their sentence for assault or homicide if we know they’re pregnant, but it shouldn’t be a homicide charge.”But sometimes, murder is ok. And this is one of those times.”?”Peoplevalue their babies because they’ve become part of the family unit, andpart of a societal structure. This is why people get charged withmurder should they end the life of an infant. When an infant is stillin the womb, it doesn’t have that status yet, and Americans haveindicated that they don’t want it to have that status yet. This isn’t areligious argument, this is a social argument, and nobody should makeit more than that.”Okay.

  12. agnophilo says:

    @And_I_love – Don’t call him a “retardate” whatever that even means. 

  13. Diva_Jyoti says:

    @agnophilo – what the fuck ever agno.  you would never have picked on me like this before. why are we even still friends if you are still so pissed off?

  14. gene546 says:

    @agnophilo – First of all, the term “Natural Selection” is very ambiguous. You explained how it works on the species but, this force it seems to have an especial attributes: omniscience being one of them for it guides the species according to their needs. It fallows then, it knows anything beforehand. It must be a very especial entity; capable to balance the entire creation. So, Natural Selection, it must possess the attributes of God. Or most probably, it must be a god.

  15. gene546 says:

    @agnophilo – Religion exists because human needs it. Why? Because people, often times look to someone to talk about their distresses and feelings of guiltiness. Religion, doesn’t judge anyone, and will never do it; religion helps people to comprehend their human imperfectness, and to console and guide them when confusion takes over their minds.   

  16. agnophilo says:

    @gene546 – No, not at all.  Natural selection is the effect of environmental selective pressures on an organism, it isn’t perfect or a conscious process.It’s how new strains of viruses and bacteria spring up, it’s an observable fact of nature.@gene546 – I don’t feel the need for that.  I get why people often do though.

  17. gene546 says:

    @agnophilo – There is a separation wall between State and religion. I strongly believe that, moral issues are part of religion (abortion), and the State shall not intervene on few of them; for the words “pardon yourself,” and “your sins are forgiven,” have a different impact on those involved in abortion.

  18. agnophilo says:

    @gene546 – It’s nice that you feel that way, many religious people feel the opposite and want to use the government to control people and enforce their religious values.  George W. Bush talked of “the important bridge between church and state”.

  19. gene546 says:

    @Shy___Away – Did you ever try to talk to a personal God? Now, Christ dies on the Cross to pardon our sins, for those who believe in Him. Is it that suffering “self center egocentrism?”

  20. gene546 says:

    @And_I_love – Yes, Mr. Obama is subsidizing abortions in México. No, I don’t know what “natural selection” is. Probably you shall know very well. Can you elaborate for me? Please avoid the effects of “natural selection”, and tell me exactly what “natural selection” is.

  21. gene546 says:

    @agnophilo – See, I hang up on the teaching of the Church. I let know people what I do believe but, I will never force people to believe in my religion. It will be a sin from my part to act against the will of those who choose not to believe.

  22. gene546 says:

    @agnophilo – So you said if I understood you well “Natural selection,” has its own conscience?

  23. agnophilo says:

    @gene546 – “Yes, Mr. Obama is subsidizing abortions inMéxico.” I asked you for a source for this claim, provide one or withdraw the claim.”No, I don’t know what “natural selection” is. Probably youshall know very well. Can you elaborate for me? Please avoid theeffects of “natural selection”, and tell me exactly what “naturalselection” is.”It is the statistical fact that useful genetic variations get passed on more often than harmful ones, and become more common in a population of organisms allowing them to adapt to changes in their environment.  It’s why all life doesn’t die out when an ice age happens, or a new disease springs up.@gene546 – The church has forced people to believe in the past.  But it’s good that you do not.@gene546 – No, I didn’t say anything about conscience.  I said it is not a conscious process.  Conscience is your sense of good and bad, conscious means an active mind, being awake etc.  I’m saying that natural selection isn’t driven by a conscious mind.  There’s no brain making decisions, it just happens, life adapts to whatever it’s environment is by trial and error.

  24. helvetebrann says:

    @agnophilo – Sources vary, but the research out there is inconclusive and ranges from 20 weeks to 29 weeks.http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1566772,00.htmlhttp://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/23/health/main792338.shtmlhttp://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/41608.phphttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4905892.stmhttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9053416/http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/23/health/23cnd-fetus.htmlThe more recent research suggests that while neural development that sense pain is developed by 20 weeks, the structure to process and create pain is not in place until around 28 to 29 weeks.

  25. gene546 says:

    @agnophilo – The best source is your representative, to the Congress of the Union, of the district you’re living in. he/she will let you know about this issue. Whoever your representative is shall inform you. Whenever I have a doubt about of some of the new laws that had been enacted by Congress I ask my representative, through the E-mail. It takes a while but, they shall give to you the information. In my district, the name of my representative to the Union is Lois Capp. Regarding Natural selection, why acts only with animals and not with humans?

  26. agnophilo says:

    @gene546 – No it acts on humans as well.  People also adapt to diseases, new sources of food etc.And by source I meant an article or something.

  27. gene546 says:

    You’re confusing the passive “is” voice with the active voice “does,” of the verb “to be.” my question is what Natural Selections IS?

  28. gene546 says:

    @agnophilo – First of all, the Church never forced in the past, people to be converted to Catholicism. You need sources please for your accusation against the Catholic Church. Secondly, you had not defined what Natural Selection IS. And finally you had proved that Mr. Obama is subsidizing abortion in México.

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