RE: RE: The Myth of Christian Persecution

Naitoofnarnia did a blog (in response to this blog) claiming that the “war on christianity” and christian persecution is all too real in the united states.

I’m going to respond to this bit:

But what Jenessa seems to be neglecting is that persecution of the Church in America has had a far more subtle effects than that the direct suffering of our fellow Believers in other countries. According to The Jeremiah Prophet web site, the War On Christianity has been gradual and under the radar, ranging from public domain to schools to business and more.

Things like a Krispy Kreme store denying students free donuts as promised for getting As on their report cards simply because the grades were earned in Bible class. And a convicted child rapist being set free simply because the judge quoted from the Bible while pronouncing the sentence. Tourists in Washington, DC were ordered to stop praying in the rotunda of the US Capitol. A student on school grounds (before and after school hours) was suspended solely for handing out (not forcing) religious literature. Even student-led prayers voluntarily done have been deemed wrong. And many more. It does not take a lot of deep investigation before one realizes that the persecution that is going on is not so much aimed directly at the Believers, themselves, with physical force, but is aimed at their very ability to live out their faith as freely as the very Constitution of their country promises! What’s worse is that this is happening even within our own government.

Now what I find hysterical first of all is that the first proof of christian persecution in the US is christians not getting free doughnuts.  To cite this as christian persecution is absurd.  When I think persecution I think murder, torture, imprisonment, censorship, intimidation… not an isolated instance of someone being a dick to you.  If that is what passes for “persecution” then hoo-boy are atheists persecuted ALL THE TIME.    [edit: it now occurs to me that they could have actually not counted religious grades to even the playing field and not give children in religious schools an advantage, which would be totally reasonable.  If say you got a free doughnut for getting 3 A’s]  The second I assume was the judge being retarded and handing a rapist grounds for appeal, which is the judge’s fault.  However the US court system not being allowed to overtly enforce the bible is again not persecution.  The third is a rule that applies to EVERYONE.  People of no faith are allowed to use the capital building for public acts of worship.   A student getting suspended for evangelizing on school grounds, again not christian persecution.  The students there are a captive audience, you can’t mandate by law that someone has to be somewhere and then let that be abused for the purpose of evangelism.  Again a rule all faiths BUT christianity have no problem abiding by. 

This list is really feeble, it’s basically a random list of christians not getting their way and pitching a fit about it.

Christians who fantasize about being persecuted do so because they’re taught that they’re not christians unless someone is persecuting them.  They’re also taught that the most awesome thing the most awesome guy who ever lived ever did was martyr himself for no good reason.  That’s the role model, literally a guy on a stick.

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About agnophilo

Nerd.
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61 Responses to RE: RE: The Myth of Christian Persecution

  1. agnophilo says:

    @elgaberino – “I am at a loss why a video of Christians burning witches is related to this conversation. For instance, I have seen videos of atheists doing all kinds of stuff, but that would have nothing to do with a conversation about whether atheism is oppressed. Its just a red herring. “Read the surrounding sentences.”Persecution of Christians is formal, enforced policy in many places around the world other than America. It’s not a myth. You would be horrified by some of the things that are lawfully done. So I take issue with your title because it’s misleading.”It’s not my title, and all three blogs are specifically about the myth of widespread persecution of christians in the US.”But, to agree with you again, the systematic opposition Christians meet in America almost never rises to the level of persecution except in isolated incidents. Christians who whine about it really should be encouraged to get involved fighting for civil rights in countries that do persecute Christians. It would give them a better sense of reality. “I agree.

  2. @elgaberino – “But, to agree with you again, the systematic opposition Christians meet in America almost never rises to the level of persecution except in isolated incidents.”You know what? I even SAID that in my post that this post is a response to. It was right at the beginning of all that I said. But points was that it was all subtle in long, drawn-out efforts, and not necessarily connected to one another. But apparently very few of my critics are taking note of that fact.@splinter1591 – I’m going to show respect to my friend and to show her that her not coming to MY church any more is going to end our friendship. I’m going to learn a new perspective to add to my understanding of her world. I am not going because I have to – I’m choosing to go. If I wanted, I could leave or not go at all. Any awkwardness would be due to the fact that I’ve just never BEEN to something like that. I’ve felt awkward in events that are completely NON-religious simply because I’d never been to such an event.So really, your argument is lacking any sense of foundation on which to speak. You’re making assumptions and judgments which are false from the very beginning.

  3. splinter1591 says:

    @NaitoOfNarnia – what if EVERYDAY you had to go?  what if EVERYDAY your friendS were telling you you HAD to go, or you’d burn in hell or what nowwhat if EVERYDAY, you had to hear people do their wican prayers in your work, in your classes, on public propery..would it not bother you then?

  4. @splinter1591 – I’m guessing that people have told you, “Go to church or you’re doomed.” Correct me if I’m wrong…it’s just a guess given how you worded your reply.But to answer your question, I don’t imagine I’d like it at all. But you see, if it’s just a simple prayer before a meal or just a request to the god in question for help through a stressful work day…heck, PUBLIC property is PUBLIC property…then I would not be bothered. What would bother me is if someone tied me up and dragged me to their services. THAT I would have issues with. But I recognize that this is a country full of different beliefs. While I do NOT believe in “to each their own” because I am an extreme advocate that truth IS truth and belief cannot change what IS true. (Just because I might believe a tree is blue doesn’t mean the green leaves will suddenly change, for example.) But I also recognize that people can be and are as ardently ingrained into their beliefs like I am. If I am to convince them that Christianity is the real deal, I must do so respectfully – I will not FORCE it on them. All the same, I will not hide my faith just because they believe differently. I will not cease to pray in Burger King for a meal (or the means to have BOUGHT the meal) that God has made available to me just because someone two booths away is a Muslim or atheist or scientologist. And at the same time, I will not tell any of those others that they cannot pray according to their beliefs for their own meal. I would not consider that FORCING me into their faith, they are simply living their faith as they feel called to do.So to answer your question…no, it would not bother me.

  5. agnophilo says:

    @NaitoOfNarnia – I notice you keep responding to everyone but me.

  6. @agnophilo – I’ve tried reasoning with you. You couldn’t even reference my post correctly…such as when I mentioned that I RECOGNIZED that what happens to American Christians is not the same level of suffering or opposition that Christians elsewhere go through. Even if my examples were not significant to support my point, it doesn’t invalidate my point entirely. This post of yours and the subsequent comments only goes to show that there IS an attitude against Christians. Does that automatically equal persecution? No, of course not. I have even said as much. But there IS an effort against Christianity just the same.Don’t believe me? Consider Hitler. He didn’t just roll out the tanks one day and say, “Kill all the Jews!” No, it was systematic…happening over time. THAT is my point. Some people thought Hitler was great, having no idea what he was really up to. Others noticed something wasn’t quite right. I wonder of those latter people got criticized, too, before everyone realized what Hitler was really up to. I wonder if they got called names like I have just because I suggested something that is not as readily obvious as whole groups of people getting slaughtered.One last thing. And I’ll leave you to figure out the connection: Jesus said that even so much as holding anger in your heart against someone is of the same seriousness as having actually murdered them. If that’s the case…need we wait for an actual loss of life to occur before we do something about the attitude?Again, I’ll let you figure out why I mentioned this and how it relates to what I’ve already said.

  7. splinter1591 says:

    @NaitoOfNarnia – I think he read your post corectlychristians in america for the most part have NO IDEA what it is like to be persecutedand to what you said about my comment, you can NOT pretend to know what it is like/would be like if you were a minority and everyday of your life you had to face another religion in everything you do, even stuff like money, which is supposed to be non endorsing of a specific religion.  Would it make you feel awkward if EVERYONE besides you was praying in a place, like school, that is supposed to be free from religion?  You have no idea, because it is not something you experience on a day to day basis. If you try, you  are just making a mockery of everyone else.  

  8. agnophilo says:

    @NaitoOfNarnia – I already addressed your claim that I misrepresented your blog by apologizing and explaining that that was not my intent.  So grow the fuck up.As for saying american christians are not persecuted and then comparing christians to the jews in germany before the rise of hitler, you’re a delusional moron.

  9. @splinter1591 – Look, didn’t I JUST say that? I am aware that there is a HUGE difference between the persecution in other countries and the anti-Christian mindset that does exist in America. I KNOW they are not a perfect comparison. That doesn’t mean my points were entirely unjustified. ALSO, I know that I have it easy in this country in comparison, but that does not mean that my OWN personal experiences are not valid when I’m placed in a situation of discomfort. Please stop trying to insinuate my thinking or attitude.@agnophilo – My apologies. I MISSED the actual changes you made. I still didn’t see any thing better in what you have now. And by your comments to me, it’s clear that you still do not get my points. You seem to be making the case that there is an identical amount and type of persecution going on here in America as there is elsewhere. I NEVER said that. My bringing up Hitler was to reference how persecution is NOT always so obvious at first and can happen subtly so that very few even recognize it’s happening. ARE we suffering like the Jews did? Of course not. WILL we? It’s possible – I’m far from a fortune teller. But are there still personal agendas that people have against Christianity? YES. Just because those agendas have not reached a massive, wide-scale level does not mean that there are not people out to persecute us however they can.By the way, lay off the insults. I haven’t called you name so at least show the same respect and keep to the discussion. Insulting my intelligence won’t help you to be taken seriously at all.

  10. agnophilo says:

    @NaitoOfNarnia – Yes, because if you ask any holocaust survivor they will tell you it started with no free doughnuts.I’m sorry but your persecution fantasy is nonsense.  America is 75% christian and you think there could be a christian holocaust here?  Are you out of your stupid, stupid mind?

  11. @agnophilo – Your sarcasm doesn’t help you build your point. It only shows that you don’t care to acknowledge my own.And mere numbers do not always mean anything. Given the way the government is run, if a subtle, under-the-radar attack of persecution is in the works (note that I said IF), then it would possibly happen more like a Trojan Horse kind of deal. I never said anything about a holocaust. I was TALKING about how the persecution BEGAN very subtly to the point that few people knew what was happening at first. That is my ONLY reason for bringing Hitler up. You’re trying to accuse me of saying that we’re going to get wiped out and LIKE what Hitler did after things were obvious…that was NEVER in anything that I said.Now let me make this PERFECTLY CLEAR: I recognize that we do not have direct, up-front persecution. I said that several times. I recognize that we have a GREAT number of freedoms in this country and I’m glad for that. I recognize that my examples were hardly anything to complain about in comparison to other countries, but what I was trying to point out was the ATTITUDE against Christians is still very real (and I’d still give you a doughnut even though you’re atheist).By the way, when did I last insult you that you have any justification to insult me? If you want to debate an issue, show some respect, or your entire credibility will go out the window in a flash. I already care very little for your thoughts given that you can’t seem to debate reasonably, taking my points AS THEY ARE GIVEN. You call me stupid while you exaggerate virtually everything I say. Really now…I’m stupid? I know you’re intelligent, but the least you could do is SHOW it by having respect for me. Disagree all you want, that’s fine. But respect will get you much further in life and in this debate.

Speak yer mind.

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