What Time Is (In My Words).

I just typed this response to the below quoted comment, enjoy:

“My point is that if there WAS a God, then
He CREATED time…”

No, he didn’t.  Time isn’t a thing to be created, it’s a manmade system for measuring behavior, if anything exists, gods, fairies, demons, hair dryers, anything that behaves any way, then time exists.  Because time is just how we measure and coordinate behavior. 

Think of the ways we measure time, minutes, hours, days, months, years.  They don’t exist.  They are just notches used to measure the movement of the planet, a day is one spin of the planet, a month is one revolution of the moon around it, and a year is one revolution of the earth around the sun.  We could just as easily say that a day is one half a spin of the earth and a year is one quarter revolution around the sun, it’s totally arbitrary, like notches on a ruler.  We only put the notches there so we can use math to extrapolate and so we can coordinate human behavior.  But the notches are made up, fictional.  All that exists is the movement of the planet, or the moon or two flies fucking, whatever you can break down and express mathematically to use as a basis for “time”.  Just behavior.  And you can’t be “outside” of behavior, it has no boundaries and the only way for it not to exist is if nothing existed, at all.  No gods, no demons, hair dryers etc, etc.  Nothing with any behavior of any kind that could by any being be mathematically expressed.

This is what I mean when the notion that god could exist before or outside of time is ridiculous.  It’s gibberish that’s designed to appeal to people whose concept of time comes from back to the future or doctor who.  I like scifi as much as anyone, but it’s called science fiction for a reason.

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About agnophilo

Nerd.
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41 Responses to What Time Is (In My Words).

  1. Well, time is a very interesting thing.  It isn’t arbitrary in that we create it.  I mean, we DO mark it in our own way.  But time happens no matter how we mark it.What fascinates me, and confuses me even more, is how when we physically move faster, time slows down.  What if there are galaxies or stars or planets out there that are physically moving through the universe faster than we are?  Could there be more advanced species out there- simply because they’ve had “more time”?Likewise, what if we’re moving faster than another planet/galaxy/star/solar system?  Then are we more advanced?Time blows my MIND.Seriously.  But anyway.  Time being created?  I can’t even IMAGINE that.  Then again, there’s a lot out there I can’t imagine but is still true.  (like string theory…ugh what IS that stuff?)But logic tells me that for time not to exist there had to be a time where everything was stopped.  Except that for time to be created, something had to create it, make the brain wave, or the motion or whatever, to create it, which, no matter how fast it was done, used up time to do.  And even when everything is stopped, time is still happening.Ahh!  I can not wrap my head around the idea that a God could create time.  I know, I can’t wrap my head around a lot of really serious science, but I don’t think that science could even TRY to prove…What I’m trying to say is: I don’t think a God created time.Time has simply, always existed.  And even as hard as that is to wrap one’s head around, it’s almost easier to do than the previous.  And then time has something to do with string theory, I know that much.  And something about the universe being doughnut shaped, and multiple dimensions being entirely possible. Which on a random tangent, if you will forgive me for adding, IF it is possible to have multiple dimensions via string theory, then technically, at least half of those dimensions would have to have a God.  While half of those dimensions would not have a God.  And another half of those dimensions would have a flying spaghetti monster.  And another half of those dimensions would have a devil while another half would not. I know it doesn’t even add up right, but when you are suddenly thinking about an infinite amount of multiple dimensions in which every possible thing that could happen, happens, in each dimension, then half of infinity is actually not half at all but a whole lot of halves.Ugh.  And don’t get me started on how confusing infinity is. 

  2. And I’ve been meaning for quite a LONG time to write a post on this.  But not right now.  

  3. I just started studying black holes in my astro class. -mind blown-

  4. cringercat says:

    I really hadn’t ever heard of anyone speaking about time in the way that that guy did. Oo; Or girl.Usually, when I hear “before time” what I think of is before anyone put a name to such a thing. Even animals understand “time” in a way. Not the same way humans assign meaning to it, but they are aware of the “passage of time” one might say. But, I’ve never heard of anyone who didn’t understand that time was just a man-made measurement which doesn’t honestly exist. This is a new kind of stupid…

  5. musterion99 says:

    The usual notion of time is that it has a beginning. If God created the universe, then that is when time in this universe began. And if God has always existed and has no beginning, he is not bound by time and time in that reference is moot. Even Stephen Hawking has stated that he believes that time and the universe had a beginning.

  6. Time does exist.  It is mathematical.  It’s the fourth dimension.  Rate x Time = Distance, for example.Time, like the other three dimensions can be measured.  That time exists is obvious.  There is a past, a present and a future.All your hallucinating can’t make reality go away.God created time-space, the place where we live.  As the musician is not his music, neither is the Creator the universe.

  7. wtf_turmoill says:

    You know, learning how to read a clock in French was hard enough, and now you throw this at me hardly an hour after I’ve woken up?

  8. agnophilo says:

    @x_Butterflies_and_Hurricanes_x – “Which on a random tangent, if you will forgive me for adding, IF it is possible to have multiple dimensions via string theory, then technically, at least half of those dimensions would have to have a God.  While half of those dimensions would not have a God.  And another half of those dimensions would have a flying spaghetti monster.  And another half of those dimensions would have a devil while another half would not.”Not really.  That would imply that there is a 50/50 chance of there being a yahweh-like deity.  It is impossible to establish that.  Granted there are probably beings in this universe that are god-like compared to us and which we would worship in fear if they wanted us to, but does that even make something a god?  “God” is such a nebulous concept.  Unless you just mean creator of all life/the universe, in which case we have no idea that a god might even be required, and I don’t imagine it would be.  Because then the universe had to be complicated and orderly from the beginning, which makes no sense.@x_Butterflies_and_Hurricanes_x – : )  You just did.@Chinese_Sait0u – : )@cringercat – Actually it’s a common theological rationalization for god in christian apologetics which I’ve heard a hundred times, and which they are parroting from godandscience.org (the website mentioned in my recent “bible science whopper” blog).@musterion99 – Okay go back and read the whole frigging blog again.@MonkeeAramda – No, it’s not.  See the response immediately above this one.@LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – And we invented math, it’s a human manmade concept used to measure BEHAVIOR, as I said in the blog.  @wtf_turmoill – Actually I threw it at you after you went to sleep, it just hit you when you woke up : P

  9. @agnophilo – And we invented math, it’s a human manmade concept used to measure BEHAVIOR, as I said in the blog.  That is not true.  Math can be empirically proven to correspond to reality.  If math didn’t correspond to reality we wouldn’t have science or technology because we’d still be living in caves.

  10. agnophilo says:

    @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – I know.  Math is how we describe behavior.  Behavior exists naturally, math is a manmade construct.The end.

  11. agnophilo says:

    @red_rook – Well if there was another universe with no matter (assuming that’s even possible, perhaps it would create an absolute vacuum which would somehow create matter) then time would not exist there in the sense that “time” doesn’t exist in any stretch of empty space.

  12. red_rook says:

    It is an interesting thought experiment though.  What would exist outside of a space-time fabric universe like we have if that other universe only had space without time.  If some other universe had no time, then it would have to be frozen in one instance of existance.  It could not change over time because there is no time.  A God in this environment would be useless to us.  It would be like a photograph just sitting there.  No action.  No thought.  Just all kinds of things in a specific location.  Hmm, what an impotent God that would be.You take location out of the picture and leave time, then suddenly you have nothing in existance.  About the only theory I’ve heard that might make sense is that God exists in dimensions outside of what we experience.  He has the capability of manipulating and seeing our dimension, but we can only see him when he pushes himself into our three dimensions.I’m a fan of Flatland, so I like to think this is the only scenario where you could have an unobservable creature affecting us.  It would have been great if Nasa proved space was curved.  Alas, my precious Sphereland proved wrong.  

  13. red_rook says:

    @agnophilo – I think that might prove Taoism to have meaning if an absolute vacuum were the creator.  Emptiness as the ideal that created us all?  God help us.

  14. agnophilo says:

    @red_rook – Heh.  Would be pretty awesome though.Thirty spokes are joined together in a wheel, but it is the center hole that allows the wheel to function. We mold clay into a pot, but it is the emptiness inside that makes the vessel useful. We fashion wood for a house, but it is the emptiness inside that makes it livable. We work with the substantial, but the emptiness is what we use. From the tao.

  15. @agnophilo – Because time is just how we measure and coordinate behavior. You didn’t read my first comment.  Time is not a behavior, it is a dimension.  Length, width and depth are dimensions not behaviors.As usual you halluncinate a separate reality in order to make your hair brained theories come out right.Please read trunthepaige’s post on how you folks rig your arguments to alway come out right.That’s just one reason why you atheists are so goofy.  Wouldn’t it be great if everything we hallucinated was actually the way things are.

  16. musterion99 says:

    @agnophilo – And you can’t be “outside” of behavior, ithas no boundaries and the only way for it not to exist is if nothingexisted, at all. There are scientists who say that our universe has a boundary, an edge. And what about black holes, dark energy, and things observed in QM? Is it possible that they exist in a dimension outside the boundaries of our universe?

  17. agnophilo says:

    @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – Ignoring your insanity now.  And really I should’ve done so to begin with because you’re also a condescending asshole.@musterion99 – I said that time has no boundaries to which you just replied about other things that aren’t time possibly having boundaries.  As to your second question, I have no idea what you mean by “outside of the boundaries of our universe”, but they don’t exist “outside of time” for the reasons listed in my blog.  Time has no boundaries, there are no time “zones” in space where there is time here and there isn’t time there, there is time if anything behaves like anything at all.  Gods, demons, germs, pocket watches, rocks, anything.

  18. @agnophilo –  Math is how we describe behavior. Is a building or a computer chip or a robot arm a behavior?  They are all defined mathematically yet they are not behaviors any more than dimensions are behaviors.You don’t know what you’re talking about.What you’ve done is artificially and arbitrarily limit the scope of the topic so it will fit into your rather limited mind.The rest of us are able to imagine God being outside of time.  It’s because you suffer from some form of mental retardation that you become so irate when others tell you that there’s an entire universe out there beyond your personal capacity to understand.

  19. m_kabs says:

    Well said. I mean, I’m not the most intelligent person on Xanga… and even I can see the stupidity of saying God created time.

  20. agnophilo says:

    @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – Sorry, not responding to your bullshit anymore.@m_kabs – : )  Well you agree with me, which speaks well for your intelligence : )

  21. @agnophilo – Sorry, not responding to your bullshit anymore.I don’t expect you to.  You were never one to let the facts get in the way of one of your hallucinations.

  22.  @m_kabs – @agnophilo – All that exists is the movement of the planet, No.  The planet also exists.  That is obvious even if the planet has no motion.  Something can be still and time still passes and can be measured.  Time only stops at the speed of light.But the notches are made up, fictional.  The notches on a ruler are made up too.  But they don’t measure behavior.  They measure the actual space that an actual something takes up.That is not behavior.  And so it is with time.  Time is a dimension that is measurable.  Behaviors are but one subset of things that happen in the dimension of time.Objects also exist in time and their existence is independent of behavior.

  23. musterion99 says:

    @agnophilo – I said that time has no boundaries to which you just replied about other things that aren’t time possibly having boundaries. Space and time cannot be separated.Time has no boundariesIf there was a beginning to our universe, then there was a boundary of time to our universe. I understand where you’re coming from. I’ve heard other arguments about whether time really exists or is an illusion.

  24. helvetebrann says:

    You really should block Loholyshitimsofingcrazy.  I know you’re not a big fan of the big red block button, but really, she’s just a troll or seriously in need of mental aid.As for the whole discussion of time and the universe, I’ve started watching Into the Universe with Stephen Hawkins.  Talk about mind-blowing.  First off, he’s such a fucking bad ass.  Second of all, he’s got a great sense of humor.  And finally, I’ve found that he’s taken very complex topics like this and managed to bring it down to real-person level.However, usually towards the end, he starts getting into the more complex stuff.  I watched one awhile ago where he discussed the creation and deaths of other previous universes and how they probably didn’t have the same laws of physics, etc.  He mentioned that there were probably universes where gravity didn’t exist at some point before (or after, or whatever, since time is a human creation) our own universe.  WHOA!  Such a bizarre and strange thought.After listening to him for hours at a time, I usually leave with a headache considering the great mysteries of the universe like time, the universe, and physics.  *Sigh*  Is it dorky that I absolutely adore science? Next goal: Pass the CSET so I can teach both English and science.  (And history…hell, I’m only three courses away from that one.)

  25. agnophilo says:

    @m_kabs – I would recommend ignoring lobornlytesthoughtpalace who commented to you above.@musterion99 – “Space and time cannot be separated.”I’m not sure they are together to be separated.”If there was a beginning to our universe, then there was a boundary of time to our universe.” That doesn’t make sense.  What boundary?  The only way time would not exist is if nothing existed that behaved in any way that could be described mathematically.I don’t get what’s so complicated about this.”I understand where you’re coming from. I’ve heard other arguments about whether time really exists or is an illusion.”Time is an illusion, motion is real.  Well, I think so anyway.  I mean about motion, I know time is some crazy shit we/natural selection made up.

  26. agnophilo says:

    @helvetebrann – : )  It’s not dorky that you love science : )  But yeah that stuff about multiverses and such seems bogus to me.  It seems like the modern version of the big-bang big-crunch theory, more wishful thinking than science.  But I am not up on my quantum theory so who knows.  But yeah, it also bugs me in creationism debates when people say the universe is “fine-tuned” for life etc and rather than forming a better response people suggest that there are an infinite number of universes with an infinite number of sets of properties.  This is a huge leap and is likely bogus and isn’t needed to answer that objection.  So it annoys me when people invoke it in debates.  It makes the secular position look weaker than it really is.

  27. helvetebrann says:

    @agnophilo – He was discussing why he didn’t think that a higher authority was needed to create life.  He said that he thought (so not an actual theory, but more of an idea) that there had probably been plenty of universes that had existed and blipped out of existence that did not have the right conditions for life.  Cool stuff, but again, headache inducing.

  28. agnophilo says:

    @helvetebrann – I have the opposite opinion, that “life” in it’s most basic sense is a self-replicating pattern which can potentially occur in any universe that is stable at some level, and it’s possible that all universes are chaotic at some levels of magnification (ie the quantum world) and become more stable and predictable as you macro out to the chemical, macroscopic, and cosmic levels.  In the universe in all things we find broad spectrums, spectrums of radiation, elements with different properties, heat, distance, gravity, atmospheric pressure, types of stars, types of planets etc, etc.  In a tiny band of them life as we know it can exist.  I imagine in any other universe with such broad spectrums there would be some instance where a self-replicating pattern can emerge and therefore be subject to the sophisticating processes of natural selection.

  29. A Nonny Mouse says:

    @agnophilo – Sorry, just want to make an observation here-“…all universes are chaotic at some levels of magnification(ie the quantum world) and become more stable and predictable as you macro out to the chemical, macroscopic, and cosmic levels…”This simply isn’t true.  If this was true, we would be able to predict the weather.  We can’t predict the weather on this planet, much less the weather on others.  Outer Space may seem to follow something predictable, but, until just before an event happens, there is no 100% way to predict that it will, mostly because factors that have been culminating into this event were in place before they were observable by us.  There is no way of knowing beforehand exactly what direction the debris from an asteroid collision will end up going in.  Yes, we can say that it is now heading in that direction or this direction, and it might end up here, but in reality it’s just all guesswork.  A phenomenon that is repeatedly observable could, on the cosmic scale, cease- and we wouldn’t be able to predict why.  We can only explain why after the fact.And furthermore, who said this universe was stable?  Unless something’s changed in the last few years, the last I heard was that this universe was in the process of expanding infinetly.  This could end in a big mess for all of us.  It only looks orderly out there because we can see what has already happened.  We can guess at what might, but we can never know.And never trust a weatherman that always carries an umbrella.

  30. Hmm. It seems to me kind sir, that if you were actually interested in what was true, you’d be searching. Seemingly, (and forgive me if I am incorrect), by my observation of your xanga, and of comments on other blogs, you have no desire to know. But instead, it seems that your goal is merely to mock and attempt to disprove. If in fact, you wanted to know truth, or perhaps would be swayed based on fact, then kindest sir, I would suggest that you set out and do something separate from what your actions imply- . Try and prove God. – Coral

  31. agnophilo says:

    @A Nonny Mouse – We can predict the weather with some accuracy and we can predict where earth will be in 2 months with much more accuracy.  And I think the problem with predicting whether say a meteor will hit us isn’t that it’s not predictable/non-random but rather that we lack the technology to accurately measure it’s position and trajectory.  We can measure the exact distance from the earth to the moon because we’ve installed light reflectors on it’s surface that allow us to do this.This world on our level is in principle very predictable, even though we lack the ability to accurately observe complex things like weather patterns.  The predictable nature of the world at our level of magnification is what makes life and technology possible.  You can turn on your tv and it works because the protons and electrons will keep acting like protons and electrons.  This is what allows the engineer to make a tricked out rube gold goldberg machines like tvs, computers etc.Do you get what I mean?@Web_of_Bloody_Dreams – This blog isn’t about proving or disproving the existence of god moron.  Talk about not “wanting to know”, you can’t even be bothered to read a blog before criticizing it.

  32. YouToMe says:

    Well, it is 2:19 central just fyi. Lol =P

  33. agnophilo says:

    @YouTOme – : P  You shuck.

  34. YouToMe says:

    @agnophilo -  yes, i do shuck. Very efficiently 😛

  35. agnophilo says:

    @YouTOme – Well practice makes perfect : P

  36. alampi says:

    Gotta admit, reading your blog is always good for a sly smile on my part. Keep up the entertainment!

  37. agnophilo says:

    @alampi – That could be a compliment or a sideways insult, lol.

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