A Handful Of False Prophecies Given By Jesus.

You know how christian evangelists send missionaries to far-flung parts of the world to tell aborigines and remote tribes about jesus, because the bible says that only when everyone in all nations has been taught the gospels will the world end?  They actively seek the end of the world, which I’ve always thought was 1) creepy, and 2) a bit insensitive to the rest of us.  Kind of like when a religious person says “I know I should care about global warming, but isn’t the world supposed to end anyway?”,  I always think “well thanks for taking the rest of us with you”.

Anyway, the bit of the bible that says that the end will come when all nations have heard about the gospel of christ is actually a false prophecy, because it said everything on the list below (and more) would happen within one generation:

1. The temple would be destroyed (supposedly happened), which has also been interpreted as total annihilation of everything because jesus said “See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.” so the apocalypse has been popularly depicted as all bars and bricks and such crumbling to pieces all over the world, such as in the 1991 movie “The Rapture”.

2) Wars, famine, pestilence, false prophets, the usual stuff associated with the “end times” which I am skipping over for the sake of brevity.

3) “this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”

4) The sun will stop giving light, and the moon will stop giving light (it doesn’t actually give light, but hey), then the stars will fall to the earth (physically impossible since even the smallest star is many, many times bigger than the earth, the earth would, if anything, fall to the stars). 

5) All people of all nations will at once see jesus “coming in the clouds” with great power and glory, and he will send his angels with trumpets to gather his “elect” from the four winds, whatever the heck that means.

And then he caps it all off by saying “Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”

(Whole chapter)

Bunch of false prophecies, some 80 or so generations have passed and at the very least most of this stuff hasn’t happened by any stretch of the imagination.  Christians often try to rationalize these passages by citing one translation that has the apostles asking how they will know when the end of the “age” will occur, not the end of the “world”, but it’s pretty clear that what is being described is the apocalypse.  And it’s also clear that that is also the popular christian interpretation, as these things are all invoked constantly as signs and descriptions of the apocalypse.

Some christians also claim that because he’s in a temple when he says the “There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down” stuff, that he’s just saying the temple will be destroyed within one generation.  Ignoring the huge list of other non-temple related items he says between the first bit and the last bit.

As with the genesis flood account, it makes no sense if these were the inspired or direct words of an omniscient god, but makes perfect sense if they are written by or spoken by someone with a bronze-age understanding of the world.  The world is a flat disk with four “winds” and just like everyone around sees thunder or the sun at the same time, everyone will see jesus descending from the sky at the same time (“For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”), because the earth is maybe a few hundred miles across.  And the gospels could easily be communicated to everyone in the world in a short time because only the romans and the greeks and the jews existed.  They would know nothing of native americans or japanese people etc for 15 centuries or so.

And the flood account seems reasonable if you think maybe a few hundred kinds of animals existed.  Think about all the animals you’ve seen in person that were indigenous to your area, not in a zoo imported from africa or on tv or something, but that naturally lived right there.  Would there even be two dozen?  It would be about as many as are on any farm.  Easy to gather, relatively easy to feed and manage.  But no deity with an omniscient perspective would have a guy build a boat to rescue the vast numbers of species we now know exist.

So yeah.

If you insist on believing the bible is infallible, I humbly request that you not try to silence science or history or belittle/persecute minorities in the name of a literal interpretation of this supposed infallible scripture.

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About agnophilo

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70 Responses to A Handful Of False Prophecies Given By Jesus.

  1. agnophilo says:

    @striemmy – I know.  So what’s your point?@striemmy – Saying “this generation” could mean multiple generations is by definition false.@The_ATM – “Maybe God thought free will ( something I doubt you believe humans have ) was more important than infallibility.”  So you believe in a fallable god who cannot see the future?  A being closer to us than to the popular concept of a personal deity?”Suggesting that humans have no choice in matters of sin and instead saying it is ‘what he made you’ is nonsense.”  If he is omniscient and designed you knowing you would be a bad person, then saved some of his creation from a punishment that he designed for them before they existed, then no, he is not some kindly “savior” any more than hitler would be a savior for sparing a few jews from the showers.”You might go to McDonalds everyday and say, ‘oh, its just who I am’, but it is no excuse.  All of humanity acts as if ( and does have, according to me ) they have a free will.  If you didn’t believe people had free wills, why would you write this kind of crap on your blog in an attempt to persuade people?”Thanks for calling my blog crap without mounting a single intelligent or relevant argument or comment.  Very impressive.In case you didn’t notice, neither the blog nor the comments are about the existence or non-existence of free will.  You, like all the other religious commenters, are simply trying to insult me, change the subject or both in order to pretend your worldview is correct in the face of compelling evidence to the contrary.

  2. agnophilo says:

    @brerjohn_lives – I wasn’t talking about young christians, I was talking about christians in general.  And I could’ve used any of a few dozen other examples to illustrate the same point.  @brerjohn_lives – Above the column of “xanga plugs” there is a link that says something like “advertise your site”, click it and be prepared to pay as much as 2k xanga “credits” for a plug, depending on how long you want it to last.  If you want to see how many you have, it should say under the “post a comment” text window.As far as your playlist goes, I found at least one atheist on it : )@brerjohn_lives – I wouldn’t call him born-again.  People are typically christian either from indoctrination or some kind of stress, trauma etc.  I consider people born-again who converted in adulthood with no indoctrination.  Cooper was apparently raised christian, believed in god and was a marginal christian throughout his career, then got “serious” about it because of things like struggling with alcoholism.

  3. Justin_DeBin says:

    Dude! I so need that magic card for my creatureless deck. But then I guess it would no longer be a creatureless deck.

  4. @agnophilo – right on!we are all rotten.

  5. agnophilo says:

    @brerjohn_lives – Assuming you’re referring to the first comment, I wouldn’t say rotten.  But I would say anyone who claims the bible as a moral authority is necessarily ignorant or hypocritical.

  6. FisherAmes says:

    @agnophilo – The word for “world” is not a reference to the physical world, but is the Greek aion, or “age.” The question is about the end of the age a time period, not the end of the world. Had that been the intent, the Greek word kosmos would have been used. That leads to point 2: What “age” is referred to here? The answer is found in knowing that the Jews divided time into two great ages: the age of law, and the age of the Messiah. This belief is commonly reflected in the Jewish apocalyptic era [Harrington, Matthew commentary, 352]. As Wright puts it [New Testament and the People of God, 299-300]: The present age was a time when the creator god seemed to be hiding his face; the age to come would see the renewal of the created world. The present age was the time of Israel’s misery; in the age to come she would be restored. In the present age wicked men seemed to be flourishing; in the age to come they would receive their just reward. In the present age even Israel was not really keeping the Torah perfectly, was not really being YHWH’s true humanity; in the age to come all Israel would keep Torah from the heart.There were various views about what this age would constitute; not all views involved a Messianic figure, and the disciples themselves showsome confusion when they ask if the kingdom will be restored to Israel (Acts 1:6). They are in line with certain Messianic expectations when they ask this; they are expecting that now that the Age of the Messiah has dawned, Israel will be restored properly again. The “end of the age”refers back to the destruction of the Temple and the end of the covenant, and the beginning of the new covenant 40 years prior. “The age to come, the end of Israel’s exile, [was seen] as the inauguration of a new covenant between Israel and her god.” (Cf. Matt. 12:32, “And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.” “World” in both cases is aion.) Matthew 24:4-5And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.(cf. Mark 13:5-6)Luke 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.In order to show that the Olivet Discourse found fulfillment in 70 AD, it has to be shown or suggested that these events came to pass in that time. Did we see many coming and claiming to be Christ? Until the time of Bar Kochba, there is no evidence of any person actually coming forth and saying, “I am Messiah” or any person being identified as such, and I have argued that to make such a clear identification of one’s “Messianic self” was likely not permitted socially. We do of course have people who took some putative military action against Rome, and failed miserably; one suggests that they might well have made a claim had their little schemes succeeded — Theudas and Judas are two examples (Acts 5:36-37), as perhaps was the Egyptian Paul was mistaken for; Simon Magus has been cited as one who claimed to be God, in a non-Jewish Messianic context; a Samaritan named Dositheus claimed to be the lawgiver prophesied of by Moses. Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.(Mark 13:7; Luke 21:9)Wars and rumors of wars have always been part of human history, and the time between 30-70 AD was no exception. The Jews suffered tumult under a series of incompetent and insensitive Roman leaders, who did not hesitate to kill people.Skeptics such as you have often said, in this light, “What’s the big deal about these predictions, then?” In a sense they are right — the key here is not Jesus’ predictions of such things, but his admonition, “the end is not yet”Caligula tried to erect his statue in the Jewish temple; the Jews resisted. In Caesarea, Jews and Syrians went at each others’ throats for mastery of the city; 20,000 Jews were put to death. Similar bloodshed occurred in Alexandria and Damascus. The Jewish rebellion itself took place in 66 AD. Tacitus in the Annals refers to disturbances, insurrections, war, and commotions in as diverse places as Germany, Africa, Gaul, Parthia, Britain, and Armenia. Josephus says that Roman civil wars in this era were so common that he didn’t see a need to write about them in detail. The Roman civil wars were especially pronounced between 68-70 when three emperors held the top spot in short order and their rival troops fought it out. Matthew 24:7-8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.(Mark 13:8)Luke 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.Acts 11:27-9 alludes to the famine in the time of Claudius. Tacitus speaks of signs in the form of “repeated earthquakes,” a shortage of grain resulting in famine at one point Rome had only 15 days’ worth of food; Josephus reports of famine during the siege of Jerusalem; the earthquake in Philippi (Acts 16); Pompeii suffered quakes as a preliminary to the eruption of Vesuvius; Josephus reports a severe earthquake in Judea, and quakes were reported by secular historians as occurring throughout the Greco-Roman world. Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.(no Lucan parallel)We need to look behind a key word: world, it isn’t aion, and it also isn’t kosmos, the word which indicates the broadest possible connotations. It is oikoumene, a word used to express only the Roman Empire (cf. Acts 11:28, Luke 2:1).  It is significant that this is the only place Matthew uses this word; he has selected it carefully as a geographical delimitation; it is also significant that he has used this word rather than kosmos as he did with reference to the spreading of the Gospel correspondent with the separation of the justified and the wicked. The gospel had to be preached to the Roman Empire as a whole before the end of the age. Was this fulfilled? According to the New Testament, it was (Rom. 10:18, 16:25-7; cf. 2 Tim. 4:17; see also Rom. 1:8 and Col. 1:6, which uses kosmos. Secular history would agree that there were churches as far away from Judea as Italy; evidence of evangelism in places like Britain and Germany are based only on tradition. Nevertheless, with a church in Rome by the 50s, it could hardly be argued that evangelism in Britain, the farthest-flung part of Rome’s Empire with respect to Judea, was not likely by 70.———–“Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Scriptures or by clear reason (for I do not trust either in the pope or in councils alone, since it is well known that they have often erred and contradicted themselves), I am bound by the Scriptures I have quoted and my conscience is captive to the word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience. I cannot do otherwise, here I stand, may God help me. Amen.” – Martin Luther,April 18, 1521.

  7. agnophilo says:

    @FisherAmes – So you plagiarized from tektonics.org?There are many inaccuracies in the article anyway, such as claiming there were no messiah claimants until Bar Kochba, when in reality people claimed they were the messiah before, after and all during christ’s lifetime, here is a very incomplete list of messiah claimants.

  8. FisherAmes says:

    @agnophilo – I believe that you are not looking at the statement of Jesus from the original intent He had.  Allow us to look at the saying, which you pulled out of context. Moreover, if your point is to prove that Evangelicalism and Dispensationalism is incorrect, then I would join you on that endeavor.  I believe in a grammatical-historical view of the text and thus, the Greek makes it clear to whom that Christ was speaking unto. The verses, which are in question:1 Καὶ ἐξελθὼν Ἰησοῦς ἀπὸ τοῦ ἱεροῦ ἐπορεύετο, καὶ προσῆλθονοἱ μαθηταὶ αὐτοῦ ἐπιδεῖξαι αὐτῷ τὰς οἰκοδομὰς τοῦ ἱεροῦ. δὲ ἀποκριθεὶς εἶπεν αὐτοῖς· οὐ βλέπετεταῦτα πάντα; ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, οὐ μὴ ἀφεθῇ ὧδε λίθοςἐπὶ λίθονὃς οὐ καταλυθήσεται.Καθημένου δὲ αὐτοῦ ἐπὶ τοῦ ὄρους τῶν ἐλαιῶν προσῆλθοναὐτῷ οἱ μαθηταὶ κατ’ ἰδίαν λέγοντες·εἶπον ἧμιν, πότε ταῦτα ἔσται καὶ τί τὸ σημεῖον τῆς σῆς παρουσίαςκαὶ συντελείαςτοῦ αἰῶνος;Καὶ ἀποκριθεὶς Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν αὐτοῖς· βλέπετεμή τις ὑμᾶς πλανήσῃ·πολλοὶ γὰρ ἐλεύσονται ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματι μου λέγοντες·ἐγὼ εἰμι χριστός,καὶ πολλοὺς πλανήσουσιν.μελλήσετεδὲ ἀκούειν πολέμουςκαὶ ἀκοὰς πολέμων·ὁρᾶτε μὴ θροεῖσθε· δεῖ γὰρ γενέσθαι,ἀλλ’ οὔπω ἐστὶν τὸ τέλος.ἐγερθήσεταιγὰρ ἔθνος ἐπὶ ἔθνος καὶ βασιλείαἐπὶ βασιλείανκαὶ ἔσονται λιμοὶ καὶ σεισμοὶ κατἆ τόπους·πάνταδὲ ταῦτα ἀρχὴ ὠδίνων.Τότε παραδώσουσιν ὑμᾶς εἰς θλῖψιν καὶ ἀποκτενοῦσιν ὑμᾶς, καὶ ἔσεσθε μισούμενοι ὑπὸ πάντωντῶν ἐθνῶν διὰ τὸ ὄνομα μου.10 καὶ τότε σκανδαλισθήσονται πολλοὶ καὶ ἀλλήλους παραδώσουσιν καὶ μισήσουσιν ἀλλήλους· 11 καὶ πολλοὶ ψευδοπροφῆταιἐγερθήσονταικαὶ πλανήσουσιν πολλούς·12 καὶ διὰ τὸ πληθυνθῆναιτὴν ἀνομίαν ψυγήσεται ἀγάπη τῶν πολλῶν. 13  δὲ ὑπομείνας εἰς τέλος οὗτος σωθήσεται. 14 καὶ κηρυχθήσεται τοῦτο τὸ εὐαγγέλιον τῆς βασιλείαςἐν ὅλῃ τῇ οἰκουμένῃ εἰς μαρτύριονπᾶσιν τοῖς ἔθνεσιν, καὶ τότε ἥξει τὸ τέλος. 15 ὍτανοὖνἴδητετὸβδέλυγματῆςἐρημώσεωςτὸῥηθὲνδιὰΔανιὴλτοῦπροφήτουἑστὸςἐντόπῳἁγίῳἀναγινώσκωννοείτω,16 τότεοἱἐντῇἸουδαίᾳφευγέτωσανεἰςτὰὄρη, 17 ἐπὶτοῦδώματοςμὴκαταβάτωἆραιτὰἐκτῆςοἰκίαςαὐτοῦ. 18 καὶἐντῷἀγρῷμὴἐπιστρεψάτωὀπίσωἆραιτὸἱμάτιοναὐτοῦ. 19 οὐαὶδὲταῖςἐνγαστρὶἐχούσαιςκαὶταῖςθηλαζούσαιςἐνἐκείναιςταῖςἡμέραις. 20 προσεύχεσθεδὲἵναμὴγένηταιφυγὴὑμῶνχειμῶνοςμηδὲσαββάτῳ. 21 ἔσταιγὰρτότεθλῖψιςμεγάληοἵαοὐγέγονενἀπ’ἀρχῆςκοσμοῦἕωςτοῦνῦνοὐδ’οὐμὴγένηται.22 καὶεἰμὴἐκολοβώθησαναἱἡμέραιἐκεῖναι,οὐκἂνἐσώθηπᾶσασάρξ·διὰδὲτοὺςἐκλεκτοὺςκολοβωθήσονταιαἱἡμέραιἐκεῖναι. 23 Τότεἐάντιςὑμῖνεἴπη·ἰδοὺὧδεχριστός,ἤ·ὧδε,μὴπιστεύσητε. 24 ἐγερθήσονταιγὰρψευδόχριστοικαὶψευδοπροφῆταικαὶδώσουσινσημεῖαμεγάλακαὶτέραταὥστεπλανᾶσθαι,εἰδυνατόν,καὶτοὺςἐκλεκτούς. 25 ἰδοὺπροείρηκαὑμῖν. 26 ἐὰνοὖνεἴπωσινὑμῖν·ἰδοὺἐντῇἐρήμῳἐστιν,μὴἐξέλθητε·ἰδοὺἐντοῖςταμείοις,μὴπιστεύσητε· 27 ὥσπεργὰρἀστραπὴἐξέρχεταιἀπὸἀνατολῶνκαὶφαίνεταιἕωςδυσμῶν,οὕτωςἔσταιπαρουσίατοῦυἱοῦτοῦἀνθρώπου· 28 ὅπουἐὰντὸπτῶμα,ἐκεῖσυναχθήσονταιοἱἀετοί.As you probably already realized from Matthew 23, Jesus had a debate with religious leaders of His day and He addressed that they will be the one to endear the full wrath of God’s wrath. In verse 3, Jesus’ followers asked him, ses parousias kai sunteleias tou aionos, Of thy coming and the end of age. Well, aionos is in the noun genitive singular masculine. Thus, to a Jew of the first century, the Temple and the Older Covenant administration of Moses was everything to them. It would have fit well for them to ask such a question, since they heard their Master rebuke those who sat in Moses’ sit. From verse 5, would you say that Jesus was a liar here? In the account of Acts, a man by the name of Bar-Jesus worked sign and miracles; thus, many people thought that he was the Messiah. Moreover, religious leaders of the apostles’ day did name Bar Koba to be the protector and Messiah of Israel. I believe a quick read of Josephus would clear that up. Okay, about your complaint with verse 6. I believe that you have never read the account of Acts. Within its on records, it gives accounts of earthquakes and famines. I believe your closest point that might have carried weight would have been verses 14. As what my friend has posted about the word oikoumené is true. From what we know of the word, it has a feminine participle present passive of oikeo (as noun, by implication, of ge); land, i.e. The (terrene part of the) globe; specially, the Roman empire — earth, world. In Colossians chapter 1, Paul spoke about every creature under the heavens have heard the message of the Gospel. Now, if you were to call Paul a liar, then that would be your own issues; however, since he was a first century reporter of the event, then I would trust his words and command of the language over you. So, according to you, the Roman Empire weren’t in a time of unsettled rest? Germany and Britain were just behaving themselves and wished to be under Roman rule. Moreover, the Edomite didn’t do the dirty work for the Romans and slaughtered millions of Jews? I guess, the seven year war never occurred? All of Jesus words were directed towards a first century context. Within the passage, Jesus used the word humas, which refers to you in the accusative case; thus, there isn’t any way a person can try to apply all of the passage to some far off time, then the audience which is being addressed. If a may ask, how many Christians do you know that attend a synagogue and had their national identity tied into the nation of Israel? None! Hebrews and Galatians was the fulfillment of the words of Jesus within those letters.

  9. agnophilo says:

    @FisherAmes – You are arguing against a position I did not take up and ignoring the position that I did.The point was that jesus said the world would end within one generation.  You ignore the descriptions of the apocolypse and argue about the “there will be many wars” passage I did not even take issue with and the temple bit which I said was the one part of the prophecy that seemed to come true.

  10. FisherAmes says:

    @agnophilo – I need the passage that says, the world will end within one generation. I believe that you are reading presumptuously into the text. Moreover, the concept of sacrifice did end when the temple fell and has never been seen again. Welcome to the end of the age, i.e. the end of Moses’ administration. It was finally realized that the temple made without hands has come.I believe that you are missing Jesus point. He was speaking about ending the Older Covenantal administration, by which, the apostles asked him. He told them, this generation shall not pass until they see my coming. However, what coming was He referring unto? According to Partial Preterism, we state that Jesus was talking about His coming in judgment. You and all of us must remember Jesus was a Jew and He looked towards the Older Covenant for His beliefs to believe. Can you show me a passage in the Older Covenant or the Torah, which Jesus wasn’t speaking about using apocalyptic images to refer to the ending of a covenant age?

  11. Don’t see my comment. Maybe I missed the button.

  12. @agnophilo – I wouldn’t agree. I would agree every Christian is, in a sense, is hypocritical, since no one is THERE yet (although they may be on the way). No one looks (or maybe can see) how FAR they have come or how different they are (and that even may be cloaked by religious efforts). “Ignorant”… I don’t agree. “Moral” to me means what is according to the Ten Commandments, etc., and the Golden Rule, and how Jesus summed it up, saying we should love God and our neighbor as ourselves. (It is hard to type anything here unless I turn off the sound, too distracting) That is not something anyone can do. That is the purpose. Failure in what we acknowledge to be good.It is a set-up, but with something in view.I think it is a common error to think the code of morals portrayed in the Bible is something we are to keep. We can’t. That is the point.

  13. agnophilo says:

    @FisherAmes – “I need the passage that says, the world will end within one generation.” Then you can’t have read my blog too carefully, as I quoted it and linked to the entire chapter.”I believe that you are reading presumptuously into the text.” The sun and moon not giving light, stars falling to earth, everyone everywhere in the world seeing jesus descending from heaven with angels and trumpets – nah, he just meant a building was going to be torn down and we wouldn’t have to sacrifice animals in burnt offerings anymore.And as I said, this is even the popular christian interpretation and christians go around saying that when the gospel is taught in all nations jesus will return.  Because that’s what it actually says.”Moreover, the concept of sacrifice did end when the temple fell and has never been seen again.” Your point?  Animal sacrifice isn’t mentioned anywhere in the passages I am referring to.  And I thought animal sacrifice was supposed to have ended with the death of christ, not the destruction of the temple?”Welcome to the end of the age, i.e. the end of Moses’ administration. It was finally realized that the temple made without hands has come.”Uh huh.”I believe that you are missing Jesus point. He was speaking about ending the Older Covenantal administration, by which, the apostles asked him. He told them, this generation shall not pass until they see my coming. However, what coming was He referring unto?” His descending out of the sky with angels and trumpets seen by all people in all kingdoms of the earth.  But that’s only if you go by what the text actually says.”According to Partial Preterism, we state that Jesus was talking about His coming in judgment. You and all of us must remember Jesus was a Jew and He looked towards the Older Covenant for His beliefs to believe. Can you show me a passage in the Older Covenant or the Torah, which Jesus wasn’t speaking about using apocalyptic images to refer to the ending of a covenant age?”What?  Can I show you a passage in the old testament jesus wasn’t talking about?

  14. agnophilo says:

    @brerjohn_lives – “I wouldn’t agree. I would agree every Christian is, in a sense, is hypocritical, since no one is THERE yet (although they may be on the way).” No, society gets further away from many biblical precepts, which I am happy about.  But the “be nice to others” passages of course we should follow.  Be they from islam, christianity, hinduism, buddhism, taoism etc.”No one looks (or maybe can see) how FAR they have come or how different they are (and that even may be cloaked by religious efforts). “Ignorant”… I don’t agree.” I was saying that christians are either hypocritical because they claim to follow the bible when no one really does, or ignorant meaning they follow the handful of common sense quotes they’ve read and are ignorant of the other passages they do not follow.  Most atheists I’ve known have read more scripture than the average christian.”Moral” to me means what is according to the Ten Commandments, etc.,” No it doesn’t.  Not unless you believe preparing a meal on saturday or making art is evil and that we should only be allowed to force our slaves to work for 6 days a week and that punishing children for the sins of their great great grandparents is ethical.”and the Golden Rule, and how Jesus summed it up, saying we should love God and our neighbor as ourselves. (It is hard to type anything here unless I turn off the sound, too distracting)”Jesus didn’t coin the golden rule, it’s been espoused in some form by every great philosopher that has ever lived, including (just to name a few), socrates, plato, confucius, the buddha, lao tsu and others, all centuries before christ.  And christ modified it from leviticus.”That is not something anyone can do. That is the purpose. Failure in what we acknowledge to be good.”I agree with that.”It is a set-up, but with something in view.  I think it is a common error to think the code of morals portrayed in the Bible is something we are to keep. We can’t. That is the point.”No, we won’t.  That’s the point.  Many of the ethics in the bible are unethical by modern, better, standards. Like slavery, sexism, racism, genocide, capital punishment for children etc, etc, etc.

  15. agnophilo says:

    @brerjohn_lives – It’s there.  Sometimes xanga gets glitchy, especially when clicking on a direct link to a specific comment.  If you delete everything in your browser’s address bar after the “/” at the end of the blog title, then navigate to your comment it should show up.

  16. agnophilo says:

    @brerjohn_lives – If you mean the music comment, I think you deleted it by accident.  I see it in my feedback, but not on the page.

  17. agnophilo says:

    @brerjohn_lives – Interesting.  Not my thing though, being a godless heathen : P

  18. I wrote that first one after a young girl I knew ran away with a gang-banger wanted for attempted murder… she was like a ninth grader. Eventually she came back, but was  a different person. She was just like a regular open-faced young kid before that, but when she got back she was closed-up, hardened. What I got out of it was her dad, who was like this very capable guy who had been in the Marines, became someone else to her. Before that point, she at some level assumed he would be able to take care of her no matter what (or where). But then he couldn’t find her, so that all-protecting person “died” to her, so she went into mourning. I think that (regardless what you think about God being real or not) is what most people experience when they hit that point in their lives when they are told and convinced that God isn’t real (or can’t be, based on assumptions connected to the materialistic emphasis of evolution, etc., or maybe their dog died or something and they couldn’t reconcile the God who gave them sunshine and yum-yums and family love, etc., with the cataclysm they thought he should have been able to avert. Kids around a certain age hit that, and then “tough up” when they think, “Well, I guess that means I’m on my own.”  That’s why our age has become such an age of cynicism, I think, and why “coolness” in pop culture equals cynicism.

  19. I think that is what the so-called “age of innocence” is all about. People don’t begin life as cynics. There is an inherent observation made upon life up until a certain point, if the aspects within the culture come to bear on the individual.

  20. FisherAmes says:

    @agnophilo – Matthew 24:29 where Jesus says, “But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.” I believe this is the verse, which causes people to think that Jesus was referring to the end of the world. Well, if one were to apply this verse, as well as the rest of Matthew 24, then it would be the events leading up to and includes the destruction of Jerusalem. I believe that people should be aware that Jesus wasn’t talking out of both sides of his mouth nor by his own authority. Jesus was citing Older Covenant passages such as Isa. 13;10; Daniel 8:10; Joel 2:10. The usage of cosmic image were to elucidate judgment on a person or nations. Surely, no one would render Judges 5:20 literally when it says, “the stars fought from heaven, from their courses they fought against Sisera”? So, is there any dispensationalists or atheists to think in this passage does refer to the stars really fighting or do they see the allegory principle being used here?All of Jesus language is drawn from the Old Testament and one must go there to find out what is Jesus talking about. One can see the principle, which Jesus used in Isaiah 14:12 and Jeremiah 9:12-16. Surely, no one grant their own presuppositions when translating Babylonian text, but use their presupposition, so why don’t you do the same thing?

Speak yer mind.

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