9/11 Anniversary Perspective.

Someone posted a blog about 9/11 and how we should pray for the victims etc, and this was my response:

Drunk drivers kill 6 times as many people every year as died in 9/11.  That doesn’t diminish the deaths of the people who died in 9/11, but I don’t believe that we should care more about victims of terrorism than victims of anything else.  I think that the threat of terrorism is exaggerated to justify our foreign policy.  In reality it is a serious, but relatively small threat compared to other things. Mothers Against Drunk Driving might save as many lives as the first responders did on a yearly basis.  But nobody’s pinning a medal on them.  And our response to 9/11 killed somewhere between 100 thousand and 1.3 million iraqi civilians who nobody seems to care about.

Yes, we should care about the victims, and especially those left behind who are still alive who have to deal with it.  But they’re a small, small fraction of the people who need caring for.


About agnophilo

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27 Responses to 9/11 Anniversary Perspective.

  1. Two Jetliners crash into the Twin Towers and you think America’s preoccupation with terrorism is over blown.Your opinion is beyond the pale.

  2. cyberbear says:

       All deaths hurt those left behind. I have lost  24 family members and friends to accidents, combat and murder, over the years.  We are, however, a nation that is conditioned to react  to spectacle.  We loved the excitement of “Camelot”, the First Moon Landing,  the Bicentennial of our nation’s founding, even the fall of Communism in Europe.  We grieved mightily as a nation when the Apollo astronauts died in ’68, Challenger and Columbia blew up, the Kennedys and Dr. King were slain, Hurricane Katrina came to call and when the towers fell.  The most frightening event, actually, is the most recent.  What happened in San Bruno could happen ANYWHERE, ANYTIME.

  3. TheBillion says:

    @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – you insist on tunnel vision. agno is looking at a bigger picture. i respect agno’s perspective much more than yours. but i know you don’t care.

  4. mommachatter says:

    Thank you for pointing out that those families that lost fathers, mothers, daughters, sons and friends in the twin towers are not the only losers in America on a daily basis, indeed they are not the only losers in the world on 9/11/01.  I know I didn’t understand when my husband died in basic training in Fort Polk, Louisiana, they would not put his name on a plaque at our school for those lost during Viet Nam.  He was in uniform and he had been conscripted as so many others but because he died on American soil, he was not paid that small honor.  Army is Army; and dead is dead, what was the difference? I didn’t see it then, and I really don’t see it now, at least not clearly.  I guess there is no way to give national coverage to the loss of every individual.  James was given a military funeral, with military escort and a 21 gun salute, I was presented a flag.  I guess I should be grateful of that much when someone, killed by a drunk driver, his family doesn’t even get that. ~ mom

  5. striemmy says:

    I believe the intent plays a role. Drunk drivers aren’t out to kill people.

  6. @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – “beyond the pale” lol. Look who got hooked on phonics.

  7. @striemmy – You find the terrorists more concerning even though our own irresponsible citizens are more likely to kill us than people who are actively trying to?

  8. @TheBillion – Drunk drivers have not been trying to conquer the West since the 7th century.  Drunk drivers didn’t fly 2 jetliners into the Twin Towers on 9/11.  Drunk drivers don’t strap bomb packs onto their children so they can explode on a bus full of people.Consequently, Agnophilo has no perspective. What he’s saying is pure nonsense.

  9. striemmy says:

    @The_Brink_of_Omniscience – You’re also more likely to get hit by lightning twice then win the ny state lottery. This isn’t enough incentive to take greater care in protecting one’s self from atmospheric electricity or stop buying lotto tickets. Essentially it doesn’t fall to the numbers for me. Measures can be taken to try and keep people from driving drunk. Make it a law for people to leave their keys with the bartender and take a breathalyzer before they get them back. Invent a super sobering cocktail and make it mandatory for bars to stock and distribute it. Start up community efforts to get intoxicated people home like a bus driven by a concerned citizen offering the service for free or at low cost. Whatever. How are you going to stop people whose intent it is to cause harm to others without bombing them all to allah? If you can figure out how to stop murder, equipped only with the knowledge of intent, without killing or detaining people illegally, then I’m sure someone out there will nominate you for the nobel peace prize. Accidents are innocent, which is why the unlawful killing of another human being is given a different designation and punishment when it isn’t intentional. We legally recognize that there is a difference. They aren’t raving lunatics who are out there to end lives. Irresponsibility can be handled. Accidents can be made less frequent. Can intent?

  10. TheBillion says:

    @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – there’s your tunnel vision again. this is agno’s ultimate point:”But they’re a small, small fraction of the people who need caring for.”How can someone disagree with that? He’s not spouting nonsense, he’s saying “don’t forget the other humans out there suffering.”

  11. @TheBillion – People suffer all over the world all the time. But the suffering caused by the 9/11 terrorists is not like all the suffering all the time all over the world.The suffering from 9/11 was intentional, cruel, barbaric, targetted. It was inflicted by terrorists for the specific purpose of causing pain, destruction and mayhem.That puts 9/11 in a class all by itself.

  12. TheBillion says:

    @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – “That puts 9/11 in a class all by itself…” with all the other kinds of suffering that qualifies as “intentional, cruel, barbaric, targetted…for the specific purpose of causing pain, destruction and mayhem.”seen Mexico lately?

  13. agnophilo says:

    @cyberbear – I’m sorry for you losses : (  But thanks for your comment.@mommachatter – Very true.  And I agree about your husband, how someone died doesn’t make the loss any less tragic.  I’m sorry for your loss as well.@striemmy – It makes a difference, but on the side of the perpetrator, not the victim.That someone’s child was killed by a drunk driver rather than a bomb or malpractice or a thousand other things isn’t much comfort I imagine.@LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – There is no coherent argument in either of your posts, and you are responding to things I have not even said.@striemmy – Intent can be made less frequent by not bombing the shit out of countries in the middle-east and raping them of their natural resources for decades on end.  And terrorism is a crime and should be fought like any other.  There is no way (legal or illegal) to make the world completely safe from a handful of people who want to do some damage, that threat will always be there.  But it can often be prevented the same way other crimes can be.  Many terrorist plots have been prevented or stopped by routine law enforcement since 9/11, not one that I am aware of has been enabled by torture, illegal wiretapping, illegal searches and seizures etc.And really, human rights abuses likely make people want to attack the government at the same time they supposedly make us safer.  I think obama said something to the point that our principles are our best weapon against terrorism.  I agree.@TheBillion – Don’t try to reason with loborn, he/she is insane and just a troll.  But yeah, thanks all the same : )@LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – In the US between 1960 and 1996, 242 times as many people were murdered as died in the 9/11 attacks.  But apparently if one person kills a thousand people those deaths are more tragic and matter more than if a few hundred thousand people are murdered by a comparable number of assailants.@TheBillion – Yeah really.

  14. striemmy says:

    @agnophilo – Depends on how much of a nationalist the person is. Well, that and the type of justice people demand depends somewhat on the character of the perpetrator. People perceived as evil generally draw the bloodthirstiness out of the mob. Remorse brings out compassion. Even if we stopped bombing them it wouldn’t reverse the damage that has already been done. It’s a blood feud. Blood feuds don’t end. If the terrorists really wanted to strike an efficient blow they could and it would be rather easy too. They aren’t trying to destroy us, they’re trying to send messages and to some extent they’re still succeeding. 9/11 created a fracture in this country that has yet to be mended. They don’t need to slam another plane into a building to get us to fear. We already do. If and when they decide to launch an all-out offensive in whatever form it takes, I doubt strongly that the methods currently employed by law enforcement are going to make much difference if any. That and the methods employed here and abroad aren’t going to do much good to the people most easily accessible to those terrorists: the soldiers. 

  15. @TheBillion – Mexico falls into the catagory we are talking about: terrorism.

  16. Tallman says:

    You make some good points.

  17. TheBillion says:

    @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – so we agree. 9/11 is not “in a class all by itself.” 

  18. @TheBillion – What happens in Mexico is Mexican.  9/11 happened in the United States.  Both are terrorism and that makes them in a different class than drunk drivers.  That’s what I was trying to show.Drunk driving doesn’t belong in a discussion about 9/11.

  19. @striemmy – If it’s so easy to prevent drunk driving deaths, why are the numbers so high? Is it because people are too preoccupied with other threats which actually cause far fewer casualties? Terrorists could kill more Americans by shipping us cheap booze than they can by hijacking our planes.

  20. striemmy says:

    @The_Brink_of_Omniscience – I think you’re being lazy. Why is it that America still has an incredibly high obesity rate when we have all of these healthy alternatives readily available to us? Why are we still hurtling towards a global burning and then freezing death with carbon footprints the size of tractor trailers? Why do we still have homeless and hungry in what has been one of the richest countries in the world? Why haven’t all cars been replaced with hybrids or electrics or biodiesels, all bulbs with cfls and all cigarettes with weed? Just because a solution is available doesn’t mean it’s going to be utilized and unfortunately we’ve developed this kinky little idea called freedom where even when you’re clearly doing something that will very likely lead to a catastrophic result you’ll be allowed to continue because no one can legally stop you, and even if they could legally stop you there’s no method for stopping crime before it happens. Now, you know that I know that you knew all of this before I said it. Can we not play this game? It’s really annoying.

  21. Justin_DeBin says:

    MADD is as much as an overkill as our foriegn policy after 9/11. I’m surprised that you would go there.

  22. Justin_DeBin says:

    Hey you should see how bad your friend @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace is getting trashed on my site. She even drove 1200 Xangans to my site!

  23. agnophilo says:

    @striemmy – Actually it’s more that corporate interests tend to trump the interests of the public. If oil and coal weren’t so profitable we’d have solar, wind etc power yesterday.

  24. @striemmy – It’s not a game. You’re making my argument for me, and that is that we have much more important things to worry about. Maybe you should worry about that list of issues you so kindly enumerated instead of the handful of terrorists who haven’t accomplished anything in nine years. Freedom means people aren’t required to act just because you say so. It means you have to actually convince/motivate them.

  25. striemmy says:

    @agnophilo – They do so only with the consent of said public. America is fat and lazy and largely uninterested in change. If we wanted it badly enough we’d have it already. 

  26. striemmy says:

    @The_Brink_of_Omniscience – Just because there are other problems to worry about doen’t mean that this one should be overlooked. Terrorism has still been acting all over the world since 9/11. It’s not like it’s stopped and you, nor anyone else on the planet, has any idea whether there would have been more if our efforts overseas hadn’t been going on. Oh, well you have a heart condition that could send you over the edge any day so don’t worry too much about that gout on your foot. If you do happen to survive long enough to strengthen your heart THEN we’ll  worry about the gout which will at that point be nibbling away at you testicles! >.>

  27. @striemmy – Point taken, but my point was that we should also avoid the opposite extreme. Oh don’t worry about that heart condition that could send you over the edge any minute. We want to make sure that gout on your toe doesn’t start creeping up on your testicles.

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