Re:”Teaching Evolution: Indoctrination as Education”

Someone posted a link in a blog to an article with the above name on Kent Hovind’s (ie “Dr. Dino”) creationist site.  I gave a brief response to the claim that science is “indoctrination”, and to one of the opening sentences of the article.  Here it is:

Science textbooks teach only verifiable facts.  And they don’t teach about half of what hovind (who is in jail for fraud right now btw) claims they do.  Religions happily indoctrinate children with not facts, but opinions and beliefs and ideologies.

“Research Analysts show a rise in child abuse, divorce rates, illegal drug use by youth, sexually transmitted diseases (STDs), unmarried couples, unwed birth rates, and violent crimes.[since the 1950’s]”

Child abuse: Child abuse was socially acceptable in the 1950s which is why it wasn’t recorded except in extreme cases – the number of reported, prosecuted child abuse cases has increased, not the amount of abuse.  Divorce rates: Atheists have a lower divorce rate than any religious group in america.  Increase in teen drug use: the largest increase in drug use in the past decade has been in the elderly, ie people who grew up in the 50’s which hovind claims was some kind of utopia.  Unwed mothers and STDs: Unwed birth rates, teen pregnancy and STDs spike in religious schools that do not teach effective birth control, and are highest in the most conservative states and lowest in the most liberal states. 

Crime rates: While the most theistic countries (including the US) are among the worst in terms of violent crimes like homicide, the most secular and atheistic countries are among the very best.

(Disable Above Playlist First)

I only took the time to debunk this section of this article to show you just how completely full of it people like kent hovind are.  They lie for a living.  And now he’s in jail because he lied to the IRS the way he lied to religious people.

Please take this nonsense with a grain of salt.


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69 Responses to Re:”Teaching Evolution: Indoctrination as Education”

  1. Casbahmaniac says:

    @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – Why is having a Marxist view a bad view anyway?

  2. Casbahmaniac says:

    @agnophilo – Actually Flogging Molly is NOT like the Proclaimers. The Proclaimers are Scottish. They’re good, but the sound is not as rich. Flogging Molly is like the Pogues only with a much more talented singer. Dave King is almost as old as Shane Magowan too. Flogging Molly only has one member from Ireland, but that’s cool.

  3. @Casbahmaniac – Both the Soviet Union and Maoist China were Marxist. And they destroyed themselves.Marxism leads to catastophic destruction of both civil society and the economy. Under Marxism the State rains supreme.That means that everyone lives to serve the State. Under Americanism each individual is free to pursue happiness and the State serves the people and human rights are endowed by God, not the State.

  4. EricBeck says:

    @sick_of_dreams – The problem isn’t necessarily the kids.  It’s about what the parents have force-fed them.So when you segregate off the kids who have parents who pushed the religious beliefs on them (we are hardwired to believe our parents, after all), we’re basically giving up on those kids.  We’re abandoning them to ignorance.So I am much more in favor of, and think kids deserve, a reality-based education for all.  Their parents still have them more than the school does and can do their brainwashing.  But giving them some exposure to the real world gives them at least a fighting chance of growing up.

  5. @EricBeck – It sounds very “no child left behind… no child gets ahead”You can’t force parents to raise their kids a certain way just like you can’t force kids to agree with what they were taught.I think it would be better for society in the long run if these things were allowed to fizzle out. It may not be wonderful to start off but after awhile people will begin to realize that kids who attend school more focused on math and science instead of religion will have better jobs and be more successful. Eventually the sub standard schools will all but disappear. . 

  6. EricBeck says:

    @sick_of_dreams – I do think an educational system, ideally run, would be more than a one-size-fits-all box.  Different interests and aptitudes could be encouraged, the most eager learners encouraged, etc.Specifically on the question of throwing the kids of the more religious parents off in to religious schools is, to me, just writing them off and condemning them to ignorance.  I don’t like the idea of just writing off kids rather than giving them a chance.Mandating that all kids be exposed to a reality-based education is not at all the same thing as forcing parents to raise their kids a certain way.  It is simply making sure that all kids are at least exposed to, and hopefully learn, what reality actually is and how to deal with it.But then, I also think that kids do have some sort of rights, rather than being mere property of their parents.  There should be limits on the harm that parents can inflict on their kids.  As soon as we start saying that parents can’t kill their kids on a whim we’re interfering with ‘parental rights’.  It’s just a matter of finding where to draw the line on what is permissible to do to future citizens.

  7. Elegast says:

    @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – Your understanding of the Constitution is diametrically opposed to what the Framers had in mind…What the Consitutional established was a democratic framework of governance. They left the direction of the country– political and economical– to the subsequent voice and vote of the people.As you should recall, there were disgareement amongst the framers themselves. Adams & friends favored a strong central government witha  central bank, Jefferson & friend envisioned a decentralized agrarian society.The “promote the general welfare” clause has absolutely nothing to do with leftist wealth redistibution schemes like welfare, medicare and social security. All of those programs are unconstitutional.The Sixteenth Amendment was tacked on a few years after the Constitutional Framers did their thang.

  8. @Elegast – Not only is it just plain old common sense, but the Framers were adament about the danger of using government power to redistribute wealth.Welfare programs are stealing.  They confiscate the private property of one group of people and give it to another.And as any fool can plainly see, government programs are not created to benefit the poor and disadvantaged. They are created by politicians to buy votes.The Framers understood that this would be the death of America because it kills liberty. And with Obama the Democrats we are witnessing America being raped and murdered.

  9. Elegast says:

    @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – Not only is it just plain old common sense, but the Framers were adament about the danger of using government power to redistribute wealth.(1) The drafters of the Constitution were contemporaries of Adam Smith. Economics was barely getting about its infancy, it would have been impossible for developed ideas on the subject.(2) Even if the drafters had personal ideas on the subject– they were not written into the Constitution. Jurists and legal scholars don’t pointlessly worship happenstance opinion– rather, they interpret the text of the statute. The Constitution, as first drafted, was silent on the subject.(3) Even if you are right in your understanding and claims of the Founders, the point is nill. Subsequent to the drafting and ratification of the Consitution, the sixteenth Amendment was passed– it Constitutionally blessed income tax.

  10. @Elegast – 1. Capitalism was well understood by the time of Adam Smith. Capitalism was developed by ancient Athens.Liberals think that everything is new under the sun. Economic wisdom that proves socialism a catastrophe has been around for millenia.2. The original intent of the Framers is critical in understanding the meaning of the Constitution. Without understanding that, you get what you’re talking about: people who commandeer the machinery of government and mold it to fit their ends. Leftist ALWAYS try to destroy original intent so they can substitute their own meaning for things.That’s tyranny and that’s diametrically opposed to the intentions of the Framers.3. Slavery was also written into the Constitution. Like slavery, the income tax is an abomination because it makes each worker a slave to the government. A constitutional amendment that gives the government a legal right to the fruits of working mens’ labor is the death of liberty and must be repealed.

  11. Elegast says:

    @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – 1. Capitalism was well understood by the time of Adam Smith. Capitalism was developed by ancient Athens.Ignorant practice is distinct from theoretical understanding.Smith’s Wealth of Nations was fundamentally ground-breaking in applying explaination, justification, and theory to old practices.2. The original intent of the Framers is critical in understanding the meaning of the Constitution.Which part(s) of the Constitution actually enshrines capitalism as you envision? It seems to me that your so-called intent is orphaned from any actual relevent text in the U.S. Constution.3. Slavery was also written into the Constitution.And what actually repealed slavery was a Constitutional Amendment (the Thirteenth). This document is the supreme law of the land. We can’t wish away and wish in parts as we feel fit. What’s most relevent is the actual text, and what it says.Income tax exists because it was amended into the document.

  12. @Elegast – 1.  The Athenians benefited from a clear understanding and practice of capitalism. Greek became the culture that dominated the Mediterranean for centuries and catapulted mankind into modernity.2. The “right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” from the Declaration of Independence. The Constitution is not a philosophical document.3. As with slavery, the income tax is morally wrong and will have to be repealed. Otherwise, American citizens are slaves of the State.

  13. Elegast says:

    @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – 2. The “right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” from the Declaration of Independence. The Constitution is not a philosophical document.The Declaration of Independence wasn’t a political or democratic documents. It has no binding effects. Its drafters and signers were not representative of America of the time.3. As with slavery, the income tax is morally wrong and will have to be repealed. Otherwise, American citizens are slaves of the State.Then you concede that income tax is Constitutional.

  14. Casbahmaniac says:

    @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – As long as you’re not Mexican, Muslim, or Catholic…then good fucking luck. China and Russia got their ideas from Marxism, but failed to properly execute it. It’s intent is not to be totalitirian. It ended up that way, yes. BTW, nobody really wants to go down that road. I don’t know why people say someone is Marxist just because of which side of the line they fall on. Are you Birch-ist or Buckley-ist or even Mussolini-ist?

  15. @Elegast – The Declaration is an expression of reasoned philosophy, the why? of America.We are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights among them the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.Socialism kills what the Declaration says as it replaces the Creator with the State.

  16. @Casbahmaniac – America is the land of minorities. It’s just leftist bilge that says you can’t make it in America if you’re this or that.Communism has failed EVERYWHERE it has been tried, in every culture, language and country. There is not one example of communism or socialism working.Free market capitalism is what made America rise further faster than any civilation in history. Capitalism benefits everyone ESPECIALLY the little guy. That’s because the little guy has access to capital markets and can become filthy rich.Under socialism the rich get richer, middle class gets destroyed and the poor get poorer. That’s exactly what Obama is doing to America now. We are now experiencing record levels of poverty.

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