Apparently Magic Mushrooms Grow In Israel Too.

I was arguing with a8972147 on nidan’s site and he was being his usual asshole self.  He was arguing about intercessory prayer, claiming it worked.  To “prove” it did, he cited multiple studies, all of which (if you bother to read them) concluded either that it didn’t work, or had a negative effect on patient health.

But that’s not the good part.  This is seriously trippy.  So he posts another two links, one is another study that concluded that it had no effect (he just doesn’t learn, lol) and the other is a study done by an israeli physician where they tried to pray that god would go back in time and change the outcomes of past illnesses in minor ways.  That’s right, they got the medical records, didn’t look at them, and prayed for half of the past-patients with blood infections to have gotten better quicker… in the past.

From the introduction here:

“As we cannot assume a priori that time is linear, as we perceive it, or that God is limited by a linear time, as we are, the intervention was carried out 4-10 years after the patients’ infection and hospitalisation. The hypothesis was that remote, retroactive intercessory prayer reduces mortality and shortens the length of stay in hospital and duration of fever. “

This is easily the funniest thing I’ve read in a long time.


About agnophilo

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22 Responses to Apparently Magic Mushrooms Grow In Israel Too.

  1. striemmy says:

    Funny or brilliant? I think it’s an interesting thought experiment manifested in reality. It’s like a black box experiment across time. In fact, it may be almost exactly the same. Focused conscious thought used to alter a result. 

  2. mommachatter says:

    Let me get this straight…1990 I go to the hospital for heart surgery and stay in the hospital 10 days….then someone comes along and prays for me in 2000 and I got out in 5 days instead….Now that is a really good trick…sure would play heck with your journal or diary.

  3. agnophilo says:

    @mommachatter – : )  Imagine all the changes in countless lives that would proceed from those 5 days too.

  4. mommachatter says:

    @agnophilo – I would think it would be as dangerous as going back in time and changing who married whom….or savings someones life that shouldn’t have been saved for some reason.  Anything like that would have a Butterfly effect…wouldn’t it?

  5. anaraug says:

    You know, on one hand, it’s worth a shot, not like praying takes effort, but on the other hand, that is some serious fucking with causality going on there.  What if you prayed in such a way, and it DID work, and now, thanks to you, all of space-time is distorted and reality now dosen’t exist or sucks or something?  This is clearly way too dangerous of an experiment for any scientist of conscience to perform.

  6. agnophilo says:

    @mommachatter – Well, it wouldn’t cause a hurricane, but it would have countless small effects that might as well be a hurricane. 

  7. agnophilo says:

    @anaraug – True.  That and it’s insane, but yeah.  They’re ironically “playing god”.  Of course they are doctors.

  8. Justin_DeBin says:

    You are A8791247 aren’t you. You both sound a lot alike when commenting on my site, and he’s supposedly a Christian who is supposedly the worlds worst arguer. He’s you pretending to be a christian to purposely lose arguments isn’t he?

  9. UTRow1 says:

    @Justin_DeBin – Conservative Xanga Christians don’t need help losing arguments. There are enough walking, talking “strawmen” to make fabricating a moron unnecessary (e.g., lobornthroughtspalace and musterion over at godlessliberal’s Xanga).  Even less extreme morons are pretty hilarious. Interstellarmachine believes the Earth is 6,000-10,000 years old, the Bible is inerrant, and that the Holy Spirit inhabits his body when he reads the Bible, making his interpretations infallible. Not only that, but every other Christian is also inhabited by this spirit when they read the Bible, giving all Christians infallible interpretations about the Bible. The fact that no one Christian has the exact same interpretation of the Bible (or the same understanding of the Bible) doesn’t seem to phase him in making this hypothesis one bit.)Xanga is pretty the hotbed of anti-intellectual Christians on the internet. At least from what I have seen.

  10. Justin_DeBin says:

    @UTRow1 – Yeah and their counterparts on your side of the aisle are just as hilarious claiming to know how old the universe is how it was created and calling people stupid on the sole basis of not believing the same thing you do.Xanga is the hot bed for a whole lot of morons who don’t realize just how childish they look and sound and take themselves and their beliefs wa-a-a-y too seriously.

  11. Justin_DeBin says:

    @agnophilo – I went back sever weks on A879’s site and couldn’t find the argument you mention. Did he take it down? Can you send me a link?

  12. UTRow1 says:

    @Justin_DeBin – I would like the names of specific people on “my” side of the aisle who are as irrational as the people who think the Earth is 6,000-10,000 years old (every relevant field of science independently rejects this view); a world-wide cabal of scientists is fabricating global warming (absolutely no evidence supports this view); Christianity is historically equivalent to civility; and ghosts inhabit the body of every Christian, giving them perfect (but somehow different) interpretations of the Bible. These are all actual views held by one or more of the ADULTS I named. I don’t know anyone who claims to know how old the universe is, with any great certainty, but I know virtually every scientist and educated person I have ever met accepted the scientific consensus on the age of the Earth. I have yet to meet a single “conservative Christian” on Xanga that openly admits to accepting evolution or that the Earth is “old.” That’s fucking astounding. Anyways, most of the studies that I have seen attempting to hypothesize the age of the universe were relatively rational and logical. Even if it’s largely guesswork, rational guesswork beats insane conspiracy (e.g., Climategate or Obama is a Muslim) and entirely unsupported views (e.g., the Birther movement) in my book every time in terms of respectability. The only parallel I can think of to those things were the liberal wingnuts who thought 9/11 was an inside job, but that movement seemed pretty small compared to the other views I mentioned above, which appear to be prevalent among the self-identified “conservative Christians” on Xanga (except for maybe the ghost thing).  Yeah, there are stupid people on both sides of the aisle that have poor rationales for accepting their views. However, I have a much harder time feeling contempt for people who recognize they aren’t educated, to some extent, and defer to the overwhelming consensus of qualified experts on incredibly complex issues than people who blindly oppose science and rationality for patently invalid reasons they often can’t even articulate coherently. 

  13. agnophilo says:

    @UTRow1 – “I would like the names of specific people on “my” side of the aisle who are as irrational as the people who think the Earth is 6,000-10,000 years old”This is the point where the creationist would typically cite brilliant men like richard dawkins or christopher hitchens as imbeciles, because the only exposure to them that they have had was in deceptively edited youtube videos and creationist caricatures.

  14. Justin_DeBin says:

    @agnophilo –  So I take it that you’re not going to give me the link. You must have said something really stupid if you’re that afraid of me reading it.I love how you insinuated that I’m a Christian and called me a creationist. That’s hilarious. So tell me do I believe the world was created in seven days? What year do I believe the worlds was created in? Keep going you know sooooo much about my beliefs this should be good.@UTRow1 – No you don’t what you want is someone you believe to be a christian to argue with. I’m not very good at pretending to be a christian (Except to the extreme anti-christian sort. But then Loborn blocked me for being a militant atheist so I guess I could fill the void easy for you.)So go ahead call me some more name and I’ll keep responding then we’ll let all of Xanga in our little joke. K?

  15. UTRow1 says:

    @Justin_DeBin – did you even read what I wrote? I don’t think you did. 1. I didn’t write anything about you. I asked you to substantiate a claim that you made and provided counter-evidence. My argument, which remains entirely unaddressed by you (and nobody has ever been able to rebut it), is that conservative Christians on Xanga have demonstrably less irrational beliefs on numerous issues.2. I don’t like arguing with people are insane/retarded as Loborn, and you don’t know me well enough to know why I argue. 3. I would prefer it if you addressed the argument I made or not respond to me at all. 

  16. Justin_DeBin says:

    @UTRow1 – If you want to believe I didn’t read what you wrote then that works for me. I’ll pretend I didn’t read what you wrote. And I’m pretending I’m a Christian. What else am I pretending?

  17. UTRow1 says:

    @Justin_DeBin – when did I say that you are a Christian again?You clearly didn’t read what I wrote, because you attribute opinions to me that aren’t mine. I am sorry if this is disruptive to the little narrative you are peddling, but that’s not my concern. I never said, or even insinuated, that you were a Christian, or that you believed in the attitudes I listed. You need to unbundle the arguments you are having with other people from the discussion I am trying to have with you and engage in them separately. Now, what I did do is disagree with you equivocating two patently unequal groups of people and the rationales behind their beliefs. In particular, I want evidence of pervasive secular/atheist views that are as ill-founded as the idea of a “young” earth, a global climate change conspiracy, spiritual possession that grants wide-spread inerrant biblical interpretation, Obama is not a natural citizen, etc. 

  18. Justin_DeBin says:

    @UTRow1 – Ok I didn’t read what you wrote, I’m ignorant and you are the greatest debater on Xanga. What else?

  19. UTRow1 says:

    @Justin_DeBin – I guess an explanation for why you would go out of your way to defend conservative Christians when you 1.) aren’t one of them, 2.) they are already over-represented on Xanga, and 3.) you don’t seem to have any articulable reasons for defending them in the first place on these issues. That would be nice, but not necessary. Oh, you’re just a troll. How boring.

  20. Justin_DeBin says:

    @UTRow1 – Your comments get funnier and funnier as you go. Now you’re imagining me “going out of my way to defend conservative Christians” and that “conservatives are over-represented on Xanga.” I don’t know why extremists are so paranoid all the time but it’s hillarious to watch. And the arrogance of assuming that I have “no articulable reasons” for believing what I do just because I don’t believe  in the same things you do.  Keep going this is great!

  21. UTRow1 says:

    @Justin_DeBin – you most certainly have gone out of your way to defend conservative Christians here. You accused agno of fabricating a strawman to misrepresent his opponents (without evidence), and then proceeded to tell me that the people on “my” side are just as bad as far-right conservative Christians. You have engaged in two arguments with the primary purpose of defending conservative Christians. If you can make an articulable argument that effectively equivocates the extremists on both sides of the spectrum on Xanga, then by all means, please do so. I have already given you a well defined parameters on how to go about this task and convince me, which you have conveniently avoided doing. I’m sorry, but the real world isn’t South Park or Fox News; the two sides on many issues aren’t equally rational or informed. One side is often right and the other side is often full of bullshit on many issues in the real world. Again, I am not an “extremist” for asking you to defend the argument you are making or disagreeing with your assertions. You made a statement that is patently false, and I am not obligated to sit back and let you say things you can’t back up.

Speak yer mind.

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