List Of Sad Cop-Outs.

I read a blog that someone wrote about “Expelled”, the extremely sleazy and deceptive anti-evolution movie that came out a few years ago.  I was going to comment, but as with many creationist blogs the comments were disabled.  So I sent the author a message explaining why the film was vile and dishonest.  They responded, and then I responded to their response at which point they had already run out of arguments and went into this shpeal about how they don’t want to respond to my message because debating takes too much time…

This might have been convincing had they not gone on about why they couldn’t respond even briefly to my message for nine paragraphs.

I pointed this out and they blocked me.

In their message was also one of my favorite dodges, the old “you’re closed-minded and I’m closed-minded, so why waste our time” chestnut, arguing that neither person is going to change their mind as if that makes their positions equally valid, or just a matter of opinion.  If I were debating with an anti-evolution person I wouldn’t be swayed because all of the legitimate science and evidence is on my side of the debate.  And they wouldn’t be swayed because they’re not interested in evidence.  Imagine debating with someone that the world is round and not flat, and when you bring up all the photos nasa has from the space shuttle they go “hey man, you’re not gonna change your mind, I’m not gonna change my mind, lets just agree to disagree”. 

Same thing.

But yeah, also someone else, who I won’t name to not be rude, did a blog recently which described every group she disagreed with, pro-choicers etc, but mostly atheists and said verbatim after each description “No wonder you think you have no value.”  As if everyone who disagrees with her is crying themselves to sleep each night just wishing they could be a pro-life christian so they could feel good about themselves.

Hugely insulting blog.  So I say as much.

She writes back deflecting everything I said with insults and patronizing comments, talking about how I need to “heal” and stop being angry at god etc.  I really detest people who are pathologically incapable of even entertaining the idea that they’ve done anything wrong.  Or, as perhaps is the case, are not capable of entertaining the idea that they’ve done something wrong if it might threaten their beliefs.  This is very similar to another one – when a non-believer criticizes bad behavior from a believer (lying, insults, stereotyping people etc) and the believer responds that they just hate christians or hate the bible or hate god.  Using their religion as a shield from all possible criticism.

But yeah, any pathetic cop-outs I’m missing?  Feel free to add your own.

[Edit: The second person just responded to me saying she was being patronizing by arguing that patronize means to help someone (ignoring the sense of the word I am talking about).  I hereby include “citing the dictionary as ‘evidence” in my list.]


About agnophilo

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25 Responses to List Of Sad Cop-Outs.

  1. democrab says:

    My last post was about what it means to be a nice person.  I wrote it as a response to SirNickDon’s post about what he felt he would be like if he were an atheist.  I don’t think he’s read it yet since I’m pretty small time and not worth the effort, but my main point was that when I used to be a Christian, being good was relatively easy since I knew that even the most thankless tasks were being watched.  Now, however, I find it more difficult to be nice for niceness’ sake, especially when I know that I probably won’t get any brownie points for thankless tasks.  It does, however, give you a completely different feeling when you do happen to be nice and you think a little more about what the action meant in the grand scheme of things.  I’ve tried making this argument before with people other than SirNickDon, but doing so feels like banging my head on a moving bulldozer.  My point of view is usually ignored since the people I’m arguing with usually haven’t been on both sides of the fence and that any report from outside their side can’t possibly be valid.  Kind of frustrating, really.

  2. grammarboy says:

    I can see the point of the first person. You admit that you won’t be swayed from your positions, and that person won’t be swayed, either. You knew that going in, so what was the purpose of even trying to argue besides stirring up trouble? Do your beliefs compel you to share them unsolicited? I’m pretty sure you hate it when people who don’t agree with you claim as much.

  3. agnophilo says:

    @democrab – I know the feeling.  I too have been on both sides of that fence, and have explored eastern thought as well, which is another world away from both.@grammarboy – I’m not going to be swayed because they have nothing with which to sway me.  No evidence or valid arguments.If I’m arguing with someone who has no argument that doesn’t make me closed-minded.And people are free to share their opinions with me, solicited or not, especially if I blog about something and they are responding to it.

  4. I don’t have to look up who the second comment is about… I just know. It’s not terribly hard to deduce. 

  5. grammarboy says:

    I get that. I’m just saying that you gain nothing from a unilateral argument. You could have assumed from the fact that comments were disable that it wasn’t up for discussion. I’m curious about what motivated you to pursue it.

  6. YouToMe says:

    Lol 9 paragraphs . You know what I would say. It figures.

  7. agnophilo says:

    @grammarboy – The sleaziness and blatant dishonesty of the movie.  If I had been mislead by it I would want to know I was being lied to.@YouTOme – : )

  8. you just keep swingin’, butch. it’s what you’re good at. 

  9. splinter1591 says:

    A cop out is when someone says my opinion doesn’t matter because my culture is evil/ invalid.It does not matter that I find part of their culture immoral just as they find parts of mine to be the same.

  10. agnophilo says:

    @complicatedlight – Alrighty.@splinter1591 – Yeah.  Prejudice is often based on fear of different people, cultures, ideas.

  11. mommachatter says:

    I remember one time when you and I got on opposite sides of a discussion mainly because I read wierdly what you had to say..  I also remember how you gently pointed this out to me.  You were not hateful nor were you antagonistic.  I think I apologized and we have since commented each other several times. If we had continued arguing the point I think we would have both lost out.  As it were, I was able to see another side of the gem.  People that block someone just because their views are different, I personally think are very insecure about their position on something and they are afraid you will rock their boat.Do I believe in a creator?  Yes, but I am not afraid to question some things I read in the Bible or something some preacher tells me is true and I am not afraid to discuss (not argue) any point of someone else with a different view.  Heck, that is the way you learn.  I am glad that you are…no matter what your beliefs.  I pointed out to a critic of athiesim the other day who said something to the effect of athiests don’t have a religion.  But you do…you believe in something that can’t be proved or disproved as do I.  Thanks again on being who you are. ~ mom  

  12. agnophilo says:

    @mommachatter – Atheism is non-theism, it isn’t the assertion that there is no god, just the position that there is no reason to believe there is one.  Just as someone who does not believe in bigfoot does not claim to have scoured the whole universe and proven a universal negative, but rather is simply unconvinced, an atheist too is not making a positive claim but is merely not convinced.  I and most atheists I know would not even care to argue against religious claims if it were not that the “will of god” were not perpetually used to beat down every minority in turn, including atheists.  But I believe I’ve explained this all to you before.

  13.  I think there are a lot of very frightened people on the web now.  The Era is turning and we are not safe.  Some say that the cataclysms could go on for another five years.  They believe in the rapture and that Jesus will save them,but they do few of the things that Jesus talks about in the New Testament. And this creates insecurity, anxiety and even panic.I would think the answer is to take care of the rest of the world, but they have become a serious problem in the military, and a coalition of non-EvangelicalOfficers have provided legal aid at bases all over the world. They’ve put out a low budget, well put together movie about religious malice against other soldiers, including most of the Brits, who are Catholic, Presbyterian, Anglican, and Mormon, Muslim, Jewish, Pagan, Hindu, Rasta…and not religious to varying degrees. A lot of Neo-Nazi’s. They more ally themselves with the devils in their Hell, believing and “fearing” them more than what Jesus embodied.Ignoring them hasn’t worked, neither has engaging them.  We need to stay focused on what seems to us good and kind and on those in need.  Jesus was cool.  Many don’t see that and out of fear, come at anyone in range like hornets, forcing their God to include them in his Kingdom when the end time comes. The Sunni Arabs have suffered Genocide. Simian knows we are all wrong so he doesn’t read carefully.  Why should he? His rhetoric is mere display, probably enacted to attract the female of his species who like that strong-man hate talk until they are “given” to them and find they may not be able to give love in turn, or deal gently with their childrenand old people.  A strange Karma is theirs.

  14. mommachatter says:

    Yes we have talked of it before but there are others that may read this site and need to hear it.  I think there is much misunderstanding of this.  I’m sorry, too many people are stuck in their own little spheres to accept anything other than what they have created for themselves. ~ mom

  15. agnophilo says:

    @pickingpinenuts – What does this have to do with anything in this blog?And the bible said the end of the world would happen within the apostles’ generation.  It didn’t.  It is by definition a false prophecy.  And if the world does end any time soon it will either be an unstoppable cataclysm, such as a huge meteor impact, or it will be our own stupidity that does us in.  Either way perhaps the greatest threat to the survival of our species is that so many of us think the world is supposed to end.@mommachatter – My point was that you are misrepresenting what atheism is.  No, people on my blog (or anywhere else) do not need to hear that.I’m tired of talking to religious people who don’t listen and then repeat the same BS I just got done painstakingly debunking.

  16. splinter1591 says:

    @agnophilo – irony since you have done the same to me regarding the death penaltyyou are un-understanding that the culture I live in finds some crimes punishable with deathbut yes, I do agree it has to do with fear, you for example fear the flaws in the process we use to decide executionand I will agree with you 100% that the process is flawedbut I also have enough faith in our system to believe that unless otherwise noted, I believe in it

  17. splinter1591 says:

    @agnophilo – and I will be the first to admit that fear of Christians (their religion, god, practice, and morals) is why I don’t like them

  18. @agnophilo – Actually, my comment came from a geophysicist.  I am making no reference to religion, but the bible is an anthology that includes history back into that period.  There are many secular documents that far predate it. Some allegory, some obfuscation. I did block the Simian after reading your blog.  I’m just not a believer–some religions are more cultural, and their history does not truly lend itself to theism.  About God, I just don’t know. He doesn’t talk to me.

  19. agnophilo says:

    @cadgoddeu2005 – Are you “pickingpinenuts”?

  20. Well, i used to spread out my drafts all over the floor, cut them apart with sissors and paste them back together with Scotch tape.  So since I’m disabled, now I have a bunch of messy sites. If I live long enough I will have books.The religion stuff isn’t very interesting to me.  I have a spiritual life, even a political one, but as long as it doesn’t become dangerous, as people’s religion and politics don’t become dangerous, as now, it’s not a major interest. Just a sense of place,history, future, such like, a country.

  21. Oh, and Capitol Punishment. I care about the prevalence of the plea bargain system where it’s used as a cudgel, but for the honestly guilty, since cruel and unusual, varies from culture to culture, people should be able to choose time and method. I have no idea what can be done about China and Iran. Bush I and II backed us into a corner.

  22. Most of the time, I just end up getting ignored after a debate (if it can even be called that) goes beyond 2 or 3 rounds.

Speak yer mind.

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