Sciency Comment Of Mine.

I posted this comment to a blog to do with the universe not needing to be designed for us because there could be many different universes with different properties.  The blog author also said that we will never explain the ultimate how and why of the universe.  I thought my response blog-worthy:

I would never suppose that we will never have an answer to a question.  The questions that plague us regarding quantum mechanics and cosmology might be as far away to us as understanding lightning once was to our ancestors.  There was a time when they could not hope to comprehend such things in one or even several generations.  But progress was steadily made, and we have ipods and tv’s and computers that literally run on lightning.  We may one day also make quantum physics our bitch : P

Also I don’t see the need for a multi-verse, there are a vast, ridiculous number of different environments (virtually none of which support any known form of life) just in our own universe.  And there was a period in the past when the sun, earth and the universe each could not have supported human life, and there will be a period in the future when the sun, earth and universe will each not be able to support human life.  Can we live under the ocean?  Can we live in outer space?  The core of the planet?  The surface of a star?  Yet we’re so arrogant we think all were designed for us.


About agnophilo

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27 Responses to Sciency Comment Of Mine.

  1. CoderHead says:

    I agree. I’ve said the same things before and received “lalalala, I’m not listening to you” in response.

  2. The_ATM says:

    Could we have come to live without the ocean, outer space, core of the planet, or the sun?

  3. I don’t think people believe in the multiverse because it gives us more options, but because the science seems to be there. I’ve been fairly persuaded from what I’ve been reading. I very much recommend Parallel Worlds by Michio Kaku.

  4. agnophilo says:

    @CoderHead – Yup, the old standby.@The_ATM – Not life as it exists on earth, but that is beside the point I was making which was that there are a vast array of different environments in the universe.  Besides, if you want to look at it that way there is a lot you could cut out of the solar system without effecting the viability of earth for sustaining life.  And actually, cutting a lot of stuff out of the universe would actually improve it, such as not having quite as many planet-killing type meteors.@GodlessLiberal – There is science which directly supports other universes?  Suggests it maybe, but I don’t think it’s quite that well supported just yet.  Maybe in a generation or two.@Kristenmomof3 – Again, welcome to the dark side : )

  5. The_ATM says:

    @agnophilo – Well, of course, what would be nice would be some other examples of life in the universe. We could then take a look at the other conditions from which arose life.”And actually, cutting a lot of stuff out of the universe would actually improve it, such as not having quite as many planet-killing type meteors.”I am not sure if the effects of tweaking variables like meteors are super straight forward like you are suggesting. For all you know, the life on earth could have been carried to our galaxy by a planet-killing meteor. Both in the scenario the universe was created or the universe came into existence by other means, I wouldn’t expect perfection in any sense we would currently understand.

  6. agnophilo says:

    @The_ATM – And earth could have formed from meteor collisions in a much more crowded and less stable early solar system.  I agree.  I mean it in the sense of the pre-fab as-is I-dream-of-genie-poofed-into-existence-in-it’s-present-state concept of creation I am disagreeing with.  In a much more chaotic and random universe you basically just take what you can get.

  7. The_ATM says:

    @agnophilo – Spontaneous order out of chaos is my favorite kind of perfection :)I agree. The “pre-fab as-is I-dream-of-genie-poofed-into-existence-in-it’s-present-state” founded on pure ignorance.

  8. agnophilo says:

    @The_ATM – Perfection is an emotional word, not a scientific or logical one : )  Unless it’s defined in a very narrow scope, such as a perfectly straight line or perfectly round circle.  But a perfect car?  What would that even entail?  You could add attributes onto it forever and never get the perfect car, even if it ran on happiness and gave off world peace as exhaust.  Eventually you would find your characteristics conflicting with each other.  Nah, it’s an emotional word me thinks : )But yeah, glad you agree about the prefab universe though.

  9. xplorrn says:

    yeah, my universe has wheels – that way i can park it anywhere i want it…  it’s a universal trailer park theory – relatively supreme new science – a cosmic wide load so to speak…

  10. The problem with creationists is that they assume this is the only way life could have turned out. But with a slight change, all life on earth could have been altered irrevocably. There had to have been one outcome, and we just happened to be it.

  11. By simple reason we can easily conclude that we are perfectly designed for the universe we live in.Otherwise we would not exist.By applying the converse, it is totally reasonable to also conclude that the universe is also designed for us.Otherwise we would not exist.It’s amazing what you can accomplish through simple reason.

  12. @TheThinkingPerson – Creationist don’t believe that.We know from our planet alone and from viewing the universe through science and technology that diversity is intrinsic to our universe.There is no reason to believe that the universe is not simply teaming with all sorts of life.For the universe was designed to produce life.

  13. @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – “If we weren’t designed, we wouldn’t exist?”Nope, that logic doesn’t hold. We get order and things coming into existence all the time from unthinking natural laws. Design isn’t necessary at all.

  14. TheBillion says:

    @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – For that is the worst preposition to start a sentence with, period.

  15. @TheThinkingPerson – If you are going to quote me, do it right!This is what I actually wrote:By simple reason we can easily conclude that we are perfectly designed for the universe we live in.Otherwise we would not exist.Those are perfectly reasonable statements.

  16. @TheThinkingPerson – The term “unthinking natural forces” is preposterous.What you are saying is no better than someone who says they believe in God.It is also preposterous to state that order results from randomness. Again, simple reasoning leads to the conclusion that order can only come from design (which itself is ordered), not randomness.Stating that order comes from randomness is an irrational statement of faith.

  17. @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – Did you ever read Ilya Prigogine’s “Order Out of Chaos”?  You might find parts of it interesting.  I did.

  18. Also I don’t see the need for a multi-verse, there are a vast, ridiculous number of different environments (virtually none of which support any known form of life)Yeah, but the laws of physics and beyond – basically, all the natural forces and properties of these forces and all of the elements in existence – as far as we know, cannot vary across a single universe.  In an alternative universe, things may work completely differently…time and space may even work differently.  Those are things we can’t really consider in the universe that we exist in.@LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – You could probably reasonably say that we were designed to survive in our universe, as the universe was here long before us – really, if you think about it though, we are made by the universe and we are a part of it as it is a part of us.  We are made up of the elements that existed for at least billions of years, we act according to the natural laws, we cannot defy them, we function by them, we are built around them.  For the same reasons though, you would not conclude that the universe was designed around us or to accommodate us.

  19. @a_drunken_cellist – For us to exist, the parameters that govern the universe must be such that our existence is accommodated.That is simple reason.To say that the universe was designed around us is philosophically more sophisticated.Atheists can’t even hand simple, so let’s not introduce any sophistication whatsoever!

  20. @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – The properties and forces of the universe were around long before we were.  You wouldn’t say that the forces of the universe were in place to allow planets to orbit stars…you would say that planets orbits stars because of the gravitational forces that were in existence before planets and stars were even formed.  If you cannot even understand that, you are the one who cannot handle simple.

  21. @a_drunken_cellist – Cosmologists say that the properties that allow planets to orbit stars and for life to exist came into being during the very first nanoseconds of the Big Bang.So they were, in fact, in place from the very beginning.

  22. @LoBornlytesThoughtPalace – Um…yeah… that’s *exactly* what I’m saying.  Planets happen to orbit stars *because* of the forces and properties in place that came long before them.  The forces and properties did not come into place *in order* to make it specifically such that planets would orbit stars.The forces of the universe set in place long before the planets were ever formed determined exactly what the properties of life forms on earth had to be in order for them to exist and survive.If another example would would make any difference, an earthquake occurs because the geological conditions are right for it and the tectonic plates have built up too much tension to stay in position, thus they crack and slide.  The geological conditions did not occur to facilitate the earthquake occuring.  The earthquake occured because of the geological conditions in place.

  23. liquor90 says:

    After every one of Loborne’s somewhat thoughtprovoking comments I get this negative emotion of a flamer, which, considering my advanced method for reading all blogs, doesn’t sit right with me

  24. Shon says:

    I need to let in that everything you answer coincides with my own wits movers in houston tx | are chiropractors doctors | online photography classes

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