I Love It When…

…I post a comment on a religious person’s blog correcting their inaccurate claims about science and they send me a long PM full of insults ending with “Blessings to you.” and immediately block me so I can’t respond or defend myself from their accusations.

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About agnophilo

Nerd.
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20 Responses to I Love It When…

  1. agnophilo says:

    @TheThinkingPerson – No, though he has blocked me before.  Good guess though.

  2. ow ow ow ow ow that person brings a bad light to whatever religion he or she professes. They should be completely disregarded as any evidence for or against their beliefs

  3. xplorrn says:

    i’m completely religious…  i never block you…  i never go to those blogs though…  i’d rather go watch porn…  

  4. Sand_notes says:

    There are a lot of people like that on xanga. I hate finding someone who you disagree with, telling them you disagree with them, and being viciously attacked by them. 

  5. BeoKOTOR says:

    Heck, I’m religious and I’m more tempted to angrily correct/just plain yell at fellow Christians than atheists or agnostics most of the time. Ridiculous.

  6. tsh44 says:

    Sorry that happened but most likely your well thought out arguments would have been useless anyway. You can come correct my science errors anytime you like with no fear of being blocked.

  7. The_ATM says:

    Eh.. it is positively not exclusive to Christians besides the ‘blessings to you’ terminology.

  8. mcbery says:

    Not fair to you. I think debate is good if it’s kept within reason.

  9. agnophilo says:

    @TheBlueNinjaTiger – Well I wouldn’t disregard a religion because one of it’s adherents is a tool.@xplorrn – So not “religious” with it’s usual stodgy connotations then.@Sand_notes – It’s common with religion, people wrap their sense of identity, purpose, direction etc so heavily in it that when you criticize it they take it as if you’d called them an asshole or something, even when you’re pointing out factual inaccuracies in what they say.  Buddhists tend not to be like this, because much eastern philosophy teaches people to lessen attachments to things, including beliefs and people.@BeoKOTOR – Faith as the term is generally used is more erratic.  Non-believers tend to be skeptical people by nature and skeptics tend to be reasonable, while faith is often of the “la la la I can’t hear you” variety, because people see their worldview as a house of cards, where if they admit the world isn’t 6,000 years old or change their mind about any tiny thing it will all come crashing down around them.  This is why I try to avoid beliefs and just stick to ideas and thoughts which are not rigid and intractable.   I do not know the truth of everything, but I can tell you my views would be vastly less perfect if I had not changed my mind many times before getting to this point.  Those who refuse to do so are lost.  And they insist we’re “lost” for using logic.  Yeah, and if two guys are in the woods and one has a compass, he’s the lost one.  But I digress…(sorry for the rant)@tsh44 – Thanks, that’s really nice of you to say.  Do you make many science errors? : )@The_ATM – True, every group has it’s tools.@mcbery – Always.

  10. Sad thing is, some people do. I’ve heard people cite idiots and jerks who call themselves Christian as reasons why they don’t believe in God or Christianity.

  11. agnophilo says:

    @TheBlueNinjaTiger – That’s like citing a black person stealing your bike to justify racism.  Generalizations are never good.I can understand citing the nastiness of religion as a reason for not liking organized religion, but no generalization about many people is justified.

  12. tsh44 says:

    @agnophilo – I do make mistakes in science, I love it but it’s one of my weaker areas of study. I don’t include much science on my blog though. I know better than to try to write much on a subject I’m weak in. My blog is pretty random but then so’s my life. 

  13. agnophilo says:

    @tsh44 – Alrighty.  Do you reject evolution or think the big bang is an atheist plot to destroy religion or any of that stuff?

  14. tsh44 says:

    @agnophilo – I’m pretty hard to convince of anything and there’s quite a few things that I find unimportant that others would like to strangle me for not caring about. For instance, I don’t reject evolution or the big bang theory I find them both interesting and enjoy watching educational shows concerning them. However, I don’t find them relevent to my life. I’ve never had time to concern myself much with origins being too busy with today to worry about yesterday, and I usually grin and keep going when someone who takes one side or the other very seriously passes my way. Everyone has causes dear to their heart and I try not to step on too many toes if I don’t have to. When it comes to plots to destroy religion, the God I believe in is either capable of handling that or He isn’t real. If He isn’t real then I’m most likely clinically insane for believing in Him anyway but I’m also peaceful, loving, and happy so it’s working for me.

  15. agnophilo says:

    @tsh44 – Just so long as you’re not trying to deny anyone civil rights, inject religion into the science curriculum, block stem cell treatments from being developed, give christians special privileges and so on.

  16. tsh44 says:

    @agnophilo – I’m pretty sure I’m not tromping around on anyone’s rights. I’m a live and let live sort of person unless you’re in my home. My home = my rules. However, I’m completely guilty of injecting religion into science and all our other curriculum for that matter. We home educate, so I’m not forcing it on other people’s children, but our computer curriculums include both a standard, secular, program of education and a separate set of Christian version ones. I like my kids to have more than one viewpoint on things and I encourage them to dig into anything that catches their interest, explore everything and make up their minds. Stem cell research is way over my head; it’s rather on the creepy science side of my mind. My 17 Y.O.S. is studying that for fun at the moment and he’s supposed to be filling me in on what his opinions are on what’s going on with all that. (Yes, sometimes the student teaches the teacher) I’ve heard some pretty outrageous claims about it but I usually brush aside anything that’s too radical from either side. I’m against special privileges for anyone. We’re either equal in this country or we’re not and you can’t have it both ways. I don’t see how doling out special privileges to a group based on any reasoning is ever going to lead to harmony. When a group gets special privileges it’s a given that other people who aren’t in the group are going to be bitter about it. Do Christians get a lot of special privileges? I know that in a country like ours they must, but I can’t think of any at the moment.

  17. agnophilo says:

    @tsh44 – There is no such thing as christian science, there is just science and pseudoscience.  To quote sam harris: “Whatever is true spiritually and ethically about our circumstance…there is no doubt there are spiritual truths…there are spiritual experiences human beings can have…and there are ethical truths. Whatever is true about that has to transcend culture; it has to transcend our cultural differences. There’s a reason why we don’t talk about Christian physics even though Christians invented physics, or Muslim mathematics, even though Muslims invented mathematics. It’s because an experiment run here and in Bagdad actually works in both places if it’s teasing out something fundamental about the nature of the universe. That is true ethically; that is true spiritually.”Science is a methodology for testing physical claims about the universe, it is the process by which propositions are tested.  “Christian science” is religious dogma which has not and usually cannot be tested empirically, falsely presented as a product of the scientific process.  And basically all “christian science” is extremely deceptive and just riddled with outright lies about science.  So no, it goes a bit beyond offering another point of view.Out of curiosity what do you teach with regards to christian “science”?As far as special priveleges, if someone could not get elected to high office in this country without being an atheist and only one member of congress was christian (and was “exposed” after being elected) would you say atheists enjoyed special priveleges?  If every single president ever elected was an atheist, would you say the same?  How about if everyone’s children in public schools had to recite a statement that there is no god every day?  If one of them had said that christians shouldn’t necessarily count as citizens and weren’t patriots because this is an atheist country and there wasn’t even a controversy, etc, etc, etc.

  18. tsh44 says:

    I don’t intend to debate scientific things if that’s what you want then I surrender to your superiority on that subject  I don’t think I used the words Christian science. If I did I’m sorry, I try very hard to avoid those words because science is science. Not believing the truth doesn’t make it any less true. An atheist may look at the wonders of the universe and only see only what’s in the text book. A Christian may see only what their version of the bible says. An atheist or a Christian may both equally appreciate the beauty of it. Scientists probe it and study it and learn more about it with time. I think every scientist is biased in some way based on how they were taught, what they believe etc. In our studies we sometimes go on wild tangents to research the beliefs and backgrounds of scientist, authors, experts in fields of study etc. I see the universe and am in awe of the God I believe created it. I never pretend that my belief is anything other than my belief. That belief makes me want to know more about the universe. In our studies we run the spectrum from radical fringe beliefs to standard textbook beliefs on all subjects. Everything is up for debate and expoloration. No topic is off limits.I’m aware of the advantages of professing Christianity in our country. I never thought of it as a special privelege, though, now that you point it out, I can understand that point of view too. I thought of it more as a product of where you’re born. The people have as leaders those they choose. The majority controls it in most cases either by choice or by failure to act. It’s just the way things are? More of a “When in Rome” thing. When I look at other countries I see the same tendency for the government to be representative of the beliefs of the majority of the people who allow them to be in place. In day to day experience I get more flack from Christians for showing videos of other religions or of evolution to their kids than I do from atheists for mentioning God.Do kids in our public schools have to recite a statement that says there’s a God? Maybe you’re referring to the pledge of allegiance and the whole one nation “under God” thing? I totally thought they’d done away with that? It’s been a long time since I was in last in a school that bothered with the pledge and then it was optional. Most of us didn’t do it that year because it wasn’t “cool” and one of our friends was of some belief that didn’t allow him to say it so we didn’t want him to feel left out. I don’t really remember another public school that had us say it out loud and I moved around a lot as a kid. It’s totally possible that I just zoned it out as an everyday thing though. Unless something like the kids who couldn’t say it came up it’s sort of my nature to just let stuff go right by.I’ve been told many times that I’m not entitled to have an opinion because I’m a Christian. I know that’s because of the mixed company I keep but it doesn’t bother me. All my kids who’ve attended college have had to keep silent about their faith from time to time. One teacher even went so far as to have the students who professed to be Christians all move to one side of the room and then told them that none of them would be passing his class so they might as well drop it, most of them dropped. My daughter and a couple others stayed in because they thought he must be joking, and if they did well on all the tests he wouldn’t be able to fail her. They failed the course, we chalked it up as life experience and she retook the course with another teacher and got a B. The other kids filed a futile protest with the university and my daughter refused to be a part of it. Later the teacher told her he respected her for that. I’m not sure how his thinking ran along that line but she got a good laugh out of it in private.I live in the bible belt so it isn’t easy, but I go out of my way to put my children in situations in which they’re the minority; be it based on religious belief, race or even gender. I think it builds compassion and understanding for them to actually see how it feels to be the “only” in the group. I’ve even been told that all Christians are clinically insane and should be locked up. I’m sure life’s much worse on a day to day basis for anyone who’s vocal about their atheism in our country especially if they live in the bible belt. I think the tide’s turning though, and I fully expect to see more and more intolerance toward religion of all kinds as the years go by. One day maybe whoever is in the majority will realize that inclusion, tolerance and compassion for the minority they force their will on by sheer numbers is the way to free us all. I have my doubts about it ever really happening. It seems that no sooner does the minority become the majority then they immediately begin to do all the same things they said they despised. “For the good of all” of course. I believe that because of our humanity we have a common point to start from. If we could just start there and allow some room for differences without getting our hackles up about it we’d be a better nation.LOL that’s a blog on your blog. Sorry, feel free to delete it without hurting my feelings. I debated even responding because I had a niggling feeling that you might be baiting me into one of those long drawn out xanga arguments on subjects I usually keep to myself but it seemed like you were really curious where I’m coming from so I took the time to at least try to convey where I’m coming from. I think I’m done now, tired out from a very long week at work and not really up to heavy stuff. Your music selection is awesome by the way and I didn’t go over this for errors in spelling or grammar so sorry bout that too.

  19. agnophilo says:

    @tsh44 – “I don’t intend to debate scientific things if that’s what you want then I surrender to your superiority on that subject ” Oh if only fundamentalists could say such things : )”I don’t think I used the words Christian science. If I did I’m sorry, I try very hard to avoid those words because science is science.” I asked what science you teach and you said you taught from secular and christian curriculums and were “completely guilty of injecting religion into science and all our other curriculum”.Christian science is fake science, period.  In science it’s experimentally verifiable or it’s not science, period.  There is no christian version of testable or un-testable.”Not believing the truth doesn’t make it any less true.” I’m not sure what you’re referring to – are you saying this about science or “The Truth”?”An atheist may look at the wonders of the universe and only see only what’s in the text book. A Christian may see only what their version of the bible says. An atheist or a Christian may both equally appreciate the beauty of it.” A lot of atheists are evangelical about science they see so much beauty in it.  I know I am.”Scientists probe it and study it and learn more about it with time. I think every scientist is biased in some way based on how they were taught, what they believe etc.” Of course.  But the scientific method is designed specifically to take bias and opinion outside of the equation.  Being sure of something doesn’t help you make experimentally verifiable predictions or get your methodology past peer review.  Medicine doesn’t make it onto the shelf because biased scientists believe it works – the double-blind, controlled study they perform is designed to tell whether it works or not objectively regardless of what anyone thinks.  Einstein got people to pay attention to his theory of relativity not by saying “I really think it’s a good theory”.  He got people to pay attention by using his mathematical model to predict extremely accurately the exact angle light from a star behind the sun would bend around our star during an eclipse, the only time it would be viewable.  You can’t predict that with bias, you have to actually be onto something.Evolutionary science has made countless predictions, it has allowed paleontologists to predict many, many things that should be in the fossil record, where they should be, how old, what strata they should be in etc long before they were discovered.  You can’t do that with bias.  Big bang theorists predicted the cosmic microwave background radiation before it was detected.  Can’t do that with bias either.  And if you can’t do it, it’s not science.  Intelligent design, creationism etc make zero predictions, perform zero experiments and produce no research whatsoever.”In our studies we sometimes go on wild tangents to research the beliefs and backgrounds of scientist, authors, experts in fields of study etc.” Why?  Is someone disqualified if they’re not a theist or something?”I see the universe and am in awe of the God I believe created it.” I am just in awe of the universe.  And I know it exists : )”I never pretend that my belief is anything other than my belief. That belief makes me want to know more about the universe. In our studies we run the spectrum from radical fringe beliefs to standard textbook beliefs on all subjects. Everything is up for debate and expoloration. No topic is off limits.”This is good.  They should be free not just to learn about anything, but also entertain any idea or belief.  In my opinion anyway.”I’m aware of the advantages of professing Christianity in our country. I never thought of it as a special privelege, though, now that you point it out, I can understand that point of view too. I thought of it more as a product of where you’re born. The people have as leaders those they choose. The majority controls it in most cases either by choice or by failure to act. It’s just the way things are? More of a “When in Rome” thing.” The difference is virtually all atheists would (and probably have) voted for a christian, most christians when asked say they wouldn’t even consider voting for anyone who didn’t believe in god.”When I look at other countries I see the same tendency for the government to be representative of the beliefs of the majority of the people who allow them to be in place.” It’s not quite the same thing, the government should be at least somewhat representative of the demographics of the people.”In day to day experience I get more flack from Christians for showing videos of other religions or of evolution to their kids than I do from atheists for mentioning God.”I believe it.  It’s like the “war on christmas” bull that gets blamed on atheists – I’ve never heard of an atheist boycott of a store because they had a merry christmas sign or a christmas tree or something.”Do kids in our public schools have to recite a statement that says there’s a God? Maybe you’re referring to the pledge of allegiance and the whole one nation “under God” thing? I totally thought they’d done away with that?” Yes, and no, they haven’t done away with it.  The courts keep upholding it.  If schools made children recite that there is no god every day, what do you think the reactions from christians would be? “It’s been a long time since I was in last in a school that bothered with the pledge and then it was optional. Most of us didn’t do it that year because it wasn’t “cool” and one of our friends was of some belief that didn’t allow him to say it so we didn’t want him to feel left out.” That’s actually really cool that you did that.  In highschool/gradeschool typically kids go out of their way to single other kids out.”I don’t really remember another public school that had us say it out loud and I moved around a lot as a kid. It’s totally possible that I just zoned it out as an everyday thing though. Unless something like the kids who couldn’t say it came up it’s sort of my nature to just let stuff go right by.”I don’t know how old you are or what state(s) you grew up in, it varies from place to place.  I know my mom grew up with mandatory school prayer in public school.  That, at least, was ruled unconstitutional.”I’ve been told many times that I’m not entitled to have an opinion because I’m a Christian.” I kind of find that hard to believe – I’ve never heard a non-christian utter that sentiment in my life.  There are certain places where you just don’t bring up religion or politics, like the workplace though.  But that applies to everyone.”I know that’s because of the mixed company I keep but it doesn’t bother me. All my kids who’ve attended college have had to keep silent about their faith from time to time.” Why?”One teacher even went so far as to have the students who professed to be Christians all move to one side of the room and then told them that none of them would be passing his class so they might as well drop it, most of them dropped. My daughter and a couple others stayed in because they thought he must be joking, and if they did well on all the tests he wouldn’t be able to fail her. They failed the course, we chalked it up as life experience and she retook the course with another teacher and got a B. The other kids filed a futile protest with the university and my daughter refused to be a part of it. Later the teacher told her he respected her for that. I’m not sure how his thinking ran along that line but she got a good laugh out of it in private.”I also find it hard to believe that this could happen with no consequences for the teacher.  I know bigotted teachers deliberately fail or lower the grades of students (a friend of mine’s neighbor bragged years later about deliberately failing black students), but if the teacher is that open about it they will generally get immediately fired, if not on principle than because they open the educational institution up to a huge lawsuit which is ironclad for the side of the student.What was the subject exactly?And what the hell, I thought you homeschooled – how is your daughter taking classes from someone now?  Are you making this up?”I live in the bible belt so it isn’t easy, but I go out of my way to put my children in situations in which they’re the minority; be it based on religious belief, race or even gender. I think it builds compassion and understanding for them to actually see how it feels to be the “only” in the group.”  I agree with that, though you shouldn’t put a daughter in a “ten boys, one girl” situation unless supervised of course.  And being the only guy in a group of girls or the only girl in a group of guys isn’t that exclusionary, but yeah.”I’ve even been told that all Christians are clinically insane and should be locked up.” I don’t think being christian makes you insane, but it doesn’t make you sane either.  There are lots of crazy religious people.  And many that are neurotic about their faith.  But they shouldn’t be locked up unless they actually pose a physical threat to someone, same as anyone.”I’m sure life’s much worse on a day to day basis for anyone who’s vocal about their atheism in our country especially if they live in the bible belt. I think the tide’s turning though, and I fully expect to see more and more intolerance toward religion of all kinds as the years go by.”Tolerance toward atheists does not automatically mean intolerance of religion.”One day maybe whoever is in the majority will realize that inclusion, tolerance and compassion for the minority they force their will on by sheer numbers is the way to free us all.  I have my doubts about it ever really happening. It seems that no sooner does the minority become the majority then they immediately begin to do all the same things they said they despised. “For the good of all” of course. I believe that because of our humanity we have a common point to start from. If we could just start there and allow some room for differences without getting our hackles up about it we’d be a better nation.”Persecution of minorities thrives in complex belief systems or hierarchical systems where the people at the bottom obey or are guided by the people at the top.  There are no such systems in atheism.  Atheists are above all individuals, and as such atheism does not lend itself to organization of atheists or extreme views.  If someone stood up any said “christians shouldn’t have civil rights” pretty much every atheist in the country would say “Um, why not?”  But if I say “Gay people should have civil rights”  to a group of church people, it’s an uphill battle to argue that they should.  This is because they are loyal to a dogmatic belief system, and suggesting the bible is wrong about anything threatens their other views, so because there are so many christians you can automatically gain broad support for such views.  The same thing can happen with secular people when complex, dogmatic ideologies are introduced – it happened with communism, marxism etc.”LOL that’s a blog on your blog. Sorry, feel free to delete it without hurting my feelings.” Don’t worry about it.”I debated even responding because I had a niggling feeling that you might be baiting me into one of those long drawn out xanga arguments on subjects I usually keep to myself but it seemed like you were really curious where I’m coming from so I took the time to at least try to convey where I’m coming from. I think I’m done now, tired out from a very long week at work and not really up to heavy stuff.”You invited me to correct your scientific views, so I asked what they were, lol.”Your music selection is awesome by the way” Thanks : )”and I didn’t go over this for errors in spelling or grammar so sorry bout that too.”No worries.

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