Met A Birther In Person Yesterday.

Yesterday I was at the post office mailing something and I was making small-talk with the person behind me while waiting in line.  I was talking about the whole Donald Trump running thing and a guy two people behind me in line piped up that if trump wins he’s moving to mexico.  I agreed with the sentiment and then began talking about how his whole platform was basically the obama birth certificate conspiracy theory.  Then the “if he wins I’m moving to mexico” guy starts arguing “well if there was nothing wrong with his birth certificate why did it take him so long to release it” (me and him were, if I remember correctly the only non-black people in line, and this was met with appropriate eye-rolls). 

I said “because people who believe the first one is fake and the government is lying to them aren’t going to be convinced by another government document”.  So then he, as is common with people arguing from a weak position, instead of dealing with that or staying on track just switches arguments immediately and says that “obama doesn’t have enough experience to be the president”.  To which I said “You know he’s been president for two years right?  He has more experience than most people currently alive.”  To which he clarified “he was a senator for what like seven years” and starts comparing him to mccain, basically repeating talking points from the 2008 campaign.  I said “I don’t want someone in the white house who was in congress for 40 years and has no integrity left”.

Then, once again he doesn’t deal with any of this and changes tack again: “obama seems to be more interested in the perks of the white house than actually doing the job”.  I was confused at this, and he explained that the president goes golfing a lot and went on oprah.  I pointed out that he had almost definitely done both before taking office (as a state and congressional senator and two-time best-selling author), and that the last president took more vacation days than any president in history.  I was going to say more but I was next in line, so I did my shipping and got a stamp.  I turned around, got out of the next person’s way and said “are you seriously saying he’s a bad president because he went on tv and did an interview?  What other president have you ever criticized for doing a tv interview?  ALL of them do many tv interviews.”

Again he changes direction, saying “obama is a socialist and a communist”.  Now at this point I was at the little kiosk thing with pens and forms and shipping stuff because I had recently gotten a several-years old utility bill from my old apartment (god only knows why it took them two years to send it to me) and was mailing a payment, so I wanted to write down the money order info and account number etc before I sealed it in the envelope and mailed it with the stamp I just bought.  So for a minute or so I was standing next to this guy in the crowded little post office (wasn’t a main branch or anything, just a little cubbyhole-type one).  So I say to him “They’re not the same thing – everyone’s a socialist, and communism is abolishing the right to own private property, he’s definitely not a communist.  Socialism is… well, the post office. Which you are currently waiting in line to enjoy the benefits of.  If you don’t like socialism, there’s the door.”

Which he kind of shrugged off… and stayed in line.

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About agnophilo

Nerd.
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32 Responses to Met A Birther In Person Yesterday.

  1. MangoWOW says:

    It’s weird because the same people that complain about the government tend to be the people that enjoy it’s benefits and put up a fuss when it doesn’t run perefectly to their standards.

  2. Garistotle says:

    When caught in a ludicrously insipid and baseless argument, the arguees will scramble, but never truly recover from the dreaded pangs that logic brings. 

  3. I know some people who told me this week they would vote for Donald Trump. I cannot believe that people actually hate Obama enough to vote for someone like Trump, but if the AM radio stations and FOX tell them to do so you can bet your late utilities bill that they will do it. Ladies and gentlemen, sanity has left the building!

  4. xplorrn says:

    i’m starting to embrace these idiots – by fracturing the right unto themselves i think it’s ultimately going to blow up in their own faces…  when the independents (who will decide the next election) get tired (and i think they are starting already) of all the absolute bs that is being kicked around, with no serious address to the most pressing issuing at hand (jobs), the wheels should fall of the proverbial dung slinging wagon…  leaving these idiots sitting in their own waste for 4 more years…

  5. That was quite the pwning, Mark. Well done!

  6. His arguments make my soul hurt.

  7. ichifangirl says:

    Yes, they’re really out there. And they’re usually pretty creepy, if you ask me. Which no one did, but I’m telling you anyway. :p This seems like a pretty nice and reasonable one, though, compared to the ones I’ve met. But, then again my entire state generally leans conservative, so…

  8. I have to agree with Trump….when he says he probably won’t get elected XD”There is a real good chance that no matter what happens I won’t win because one of these blood-sucking politicians who’s been bulls—ing people for years will end up still getting elected.”http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110429/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_donald_trump_vegas

  9. coolmonkey says:

    What the heck.  And he’s not voting for Trump?

  10. Randy7777 says:

    This was one area I actually agreed with obama on.  In fact he had to lower himself to address this issue.  I believed it was moot from the beginning.  Who the world cares about a birth certificate?  Let’s say for argument sake that it was proved he was not born in the USA?   (I believe Obama was born in America.)  There is no way on this earth that anything could be done about it.  If anyone tried it would send this nation into an all out war. 

  11. YouToMe says:

    Hahahaha. This was a fun field trip dialogue. I like how you walk us through each task too :)I think my favorite part was when you were at the kiosk pointing out aspects of socialism. Hahah. Yes, we are ‘dextering’ in a few. (its hard to comment you while chattering to you on phone)

  12. YouToMe says:

    Oh, and thanks very much again for everything 🙂

  13. The_ATM says:

    “I don’t want someone in the white house who was in congress for 40 years and has no integrity left”This might make sense if Obama demonstrated an amount of integrity. I can start listing all of the campaign promises he has broken, if you want.Not to say the other guy was making any good arguments or anything; he definitely was not…

  14. z_stands_for says:

    I just want you to know that I LOVE your posts. Sometimes I comment but rarely. It’s only because you have said most all that needs be said or I am just satisfied with it all. If ever I need to debate or ask something, I will. But until then, .. 

  15. I truly admire the fact that you are willing to have political conversations in public. I won’t do it, unless it’s in the context of a dinner conversation at a table in a restaurant. Frankly, I don’t think I would have addressed him more than once or twice. To continue that conversation would have been nauseating.

  16. cyberbear says:

    I have had the same sort of interaction with several birthers  in AZ.  It’s either a cheap form of entertainment or it drives one bonkers.

  17. @GodlessLiberal – Birthers are so much like atheists in every way.

  18. moss_icon says:

    Just had an argument on Facebook with a Birther. Insisting Obama is to blame for the economy and his own joblessness…. I share your frustrations

  19. agnophilo says:

    @MangoWOW – Yup.@Garistotle – There are always other rationalizations and bullshit premises to hang their hat on.  It’s like morpheus in the matrix: “I can only show you the door, you must walk through it.”@PilgrimOfTruth – Yeah.  Bush got re-elected.I thought it would create a rip in the space-time continuum or something.@SoftlyPearlsSlipOffAString – Yup.@xplorrn – Keep waiting for that to happen.@TheThinkingPerson – Thanks.@GodlessLiberal – I know what you mean – in a figurative way of course : )@ichifangirl – To his credit the entire exchange never got mean or angry.  But yeah, I shudder to think how this convo would go down in some parts of the country.@TheBlueNinjaTiger – It’s probably a publicity stunt, or that’s what he’ll say if he loses.  I think someone that rich and obnoxious just sees palin almost get into the white house and says “I could do better than her”.  When you have that much money I guess the only thing left to shoot for is power.  Or personal growth, but hey, that’s for sissies.@coolmonkey – I know, that confused me too.@The_ATM – He’s kept or is trying to keep most of his promises.  Like any president though, he is not empowered to write legislation and pass it himself or edit the budget, he can only pledge his support for it if congress gets it to his desk.  Most of his “broken promises” are things which are constitutionally beyond his control, especially given the republicans filibustering and requiring a super-majority for everything the dems try to do.@Randy7777 – No, they could just begin impeachment proceedings.  Obama isn’t a dictator.@estadquietos – : P@estadquietos – Welcs.  Hope you washed the dex outta your brain successfully.@z_stands_for – Thanks, nice of you to say : )@Prolixity_Split – There is nothing to fear in putting your views out there so long as you leave your ego at the door.  If he had stumped me about something I would gladly have admitted defeat and walked away the better for having another point of view.  Sadly this is rarely the case.@cyberbear – I liked the last line, it was so awesome that we were in the post office, lol.  It’s like someone railing against socialism in the line to get unemployment benefits or complaining about a government takeover of healthcare while accusing politicians of trying to destroy their precious medicare in the same breath (which I have seen).@moss_icon – I’ve heard that a lot.  Yeah, obama is to blame for a stock market crash that happened like a year before he even took office.  It’s sad that people hold such misunderstandings, and shameful that rich assholes who know better cynically promote them.

  20. xplorrn says:

    waiting is a risk…  but the last three nights have given me a renewed hope – the correspondents ball speech (he hammered trump); osama; celebrations (too over the top for my tastes)are we seeing some fight?

  21. The_ATM says:

    @agnophilo – ‘Most of his “broken promises” are things which are constitutionally beyond his control, especially given the republicans filibustering and requiring a super-majority for everything the dems try to do.’As far as I am concerned the wars are pretty big ones. He also started a war that clearly violated the principles he set forth in his campaign. He also continues to enforce the patriot act though he decried Bush for the patriot act during the campaign. There is actually a pretty long list. Most of the stuff he has not come through on, I am quite glad he is limited by the Constitution.

  22. @agnophilo – Oh, that’s not it. I worry about the type of people who follow you back to your car and threaten you. I used to get the occasional threat when I drove my dad’s van because of his personalized license plate, which supported one of the Big Three automakers.You might be more intimidating than I am, though. Maybe people don’t follow you outside. 😉

  23. agnophilo says:

    @xplorrn – Can only hope.  And yeah looked that up on youtube, very good : )@The_ATM – He swore an oath to uphold the law, he can’t just not obey laws he doesn’t like.  As president if he vetoed a law abolishing the patriot act, that would be not living up to what he said during the campaign.  And yes the wars are a big one, though during the campaign if I recall he did give a timeline for dialing down the troops which I believe he lived up to.@Prolixity_Split – Not yet : PBut yeah, some people are just neanderthals.  Though I suppose it must suck to not be able to muster an argument, which I have never really experienced : )

  24. Zissu25 says:

    oh those birthers… so if he doesn’t want Trump, who is his candidate? Michelle Bachman perhaps… or Zombie Reagan? 🙂

  25. The_ATM says:

    @agnophilo – ” And yes the wars are a big one, though during the campaign if I recall he did give a timeline for dialing down the troops which I believe he lived up to.”No, he didn’t live up to the timeline he set. Look it up.”He swore an oath to uphold the law, he can’t just not obey laws he doesn’t like.”lol. He has done this with laws besides the patriot act, most notably when Obamacare was struck down in a federal court. Even so, the enforcement of the patriot act has expanded (not just stayed the same) under Obama.You are just pushing the party line. I understand. No need for any more than superficial information when pushing the party line.

  26. agnophilo says:

    @Zissu25 – Heh.@The_ATM – Actually that’s not quite the case, his campaign website said 16 months period, while on the campaign trail he said “about 16 months” and did it in 19 months.And the healthcare bill was ruled unconstitutional in some courts and constitutional in others, and is being appealed on both sides.  This is not uncommon.How has the enforcement of the patriot act expanded under obama specifically?As far as pushing the party line, do not pretend like not thinking the president is a foreign-born commie who wants to kill grandma makes me a democrat or partisan.

  27. The_ATM says:

    @agnophilo – The war is over in Iraq? Weird. You are starting to use this Orwellian terminology. I would not say the war is over yet.”And the healthcare bill was ruled unconstitutional in some courts and constitutional in others, and is being appealed on both sides.  This is not uncommon.”Specifically there was a court order (I might not be using the correct term) in the one in Florida (believe) that the bill should not be enforced while it is being appealed.”How has the enforcement of the patriot act expanded under obama specifically?”http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/15/obama-supports-extending-_n_288054.htmlhttp://www.alternet.org/rights/135605/obama_administration_quietly_expands_bush%27s_legal_defense_of_warrantless_wiretapping/Plus, Congress passed an extension which Obama could have vetoed. He at least had to sign it, so I am assuming he could have vetoed it. “As far as pushing the party line, do not pretend like not thinking the president is a foreign-born commie who wants to kill grandma makes me a democrat or partisan.”The fact that you are completely uncritical of Obama tells me enough.

  28. agnophilo says:

    @The_ATM – “The war is over in Iraq? Weird. You are starting to use this Orwellian terminology. I would not say the war is over yet.”I used the terminology in your claim in the link you provided – in response to the claim that he “ended the war” three months later than he claimed.  No need to be a prick.”Specifically there was a court order (I might not be using the correct term) in the one in Florida (believe) that the bill should not be enforced while it is being appealed.”Care to give a link supporting this claim and the claim that the obama administration is in violation of the law?”How has the enforcement of the patriot act expanded under obama specifically?”http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/15/obama-supports-extending-_n_288054.htmlhttp://www.alternet.org/rights/135605/obama_administration_quietly_expands_bush%27s_legal_defense_of_warrantless_wiretapping/Plus, Congress passed an extension which Obama could have vetoed. He at least had to sign it, so I am assuming he could have vetoed it.”Okay, so you’re full of shit then.  As usual.Your claim was that the patriot act had been expanded by obama, not that three provisions had been extended for one year or that a DOJ lawyer tried to defend the government in a suit by invoking a provision in the bill.”The fact that you are completely uncritical of Obama tells me enough.”I’m sorry I didn’t take time to bash the president in a blog that wasn’t really about him or his policies so you could feel I was non-partisan. 

  29. embrown88 says:

    I feel bad alot of other people are looking for jobs! I volunteer at a career center were people look up jobs. The government is tough! 

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