Food For Thought On The Bible, Hell And Spiritual Experiences.

This is part of a comment I left on someone’s site I thought was worth re-posting:

Gluttony’s supposed to be a “deadly sin”, but I believe that’s a catholic thing : )

“I do believe though that what christians call grace is what buddhists call nirvana, and what the tao te ching describes as “being like the water that gathers in unpopular places”. As far as eternal consequences, any god that would punish anyone infinitely for finite crimes is by definition evil. I think (and there are theological arguments to this effect as well) that the doctrine of hell was added later. It doesn’t even make sense at all in christianity, the idea that jesus is our savior when there was no hell before he showed up. In the old testament the wages of sin are death, in the new testament (according to traditional interpretations) it is eternal torment. According to that translation/interpretation the new covenant screws us over, rather than saving us.

I think the bible has been twisted like taffy for so long the texts are a shadow of what they were when they were written, whether they have been improved or worsened overall I can’t know, but I suspect some of both. I think this may be why even the bible warns against following the letter of ancient texts because the spirit of the law is lost over time. Obeying the letter of the law is like giving someone a ticket for jaywalking when there are no cars for miles. The spirit of the law (purpose or reason behind it) is being completely perverted.

To condemn someone for premarital sex in an age with birth control and sex education when sex doesn’t automatically mean making a living being without committing to provide for and protect it makes less sense than it did in the bronze/iron age. If you asked people if having sex before marriage was evil they’d mostly say no. If you asked if having unsafe sex before marriage and risking impregnating a woman you weren’t committed to was evil a lot more people would agree. When the prohibitions against premarital sex were written there was no such thing as safe sex.”

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About agnophilo

Nerd.
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29 Responses to Food For Thought On The Bible, Hell And Spiritual Experiences.

  1. galadrial says:

    Not to mention “visiting children for the sins of their fathers”. I believe the bible condemns illegitimate children to the TENTH generation.Well excuse the hell out of me, but I will not carry freight for something my father, grandfather, great, of great great did. Even if you buy into the notion of penitence and filial piety, that is absurd. Conversely, I cannot claim I am wonderful for something an ancestor did. I only bear the credit or blame for my own actions…and anyone who thinks otherwise is a couple of biscuits shy a tin.

  2. Kellsbella says:

    I find it pertinent that you speak on interpretation of the Bible. I say this because my interpretations (or misinterpretations) counter Christians and Athiests alike. Still; it is the book for me. This poses an interesing question in my mind: Is a society better off without morals? I should think the numbers will make their own argument.

  3. agnophilo says:

    @galadrial – “Not to mention “visiting children for the sins of their fathers”.” I think the logic behind inherited sin was that if a flood or something is god’s wrath if it kills little babies they must have sin (because god is supposed to be just), and so it probably comes from their parents.”I believe the bible condemns illegitimate children to the TENTH generation.”To be fair this passage apparently is about who can enter the congregation, not who can get into heaven, though if you’re excluded from the religion you will, according to the religion, probably burn in hell so whatever.”Well excuse the hell out of me, but I will not carry freight for something my father, grandfather, great, of great great did. Even if you buy into the notion of penitence and filial piety, that is absurd. Conversely, I cannot claim I am wonderful for something an ancestor did. I only bear the credit or blame for my own actions…and anyone who thinks otherwise is a couple of biscuits shy a tin.”Guilt is a powerful motivator for religion, it makes you think you need them to be forgiven (especially for catholics).  Same BS as scientology, you need to pay them to be “audited” to remove alien souls that make you feel bad.  The scientologists are just more shameless about it.

  4. agnophilo says:

    @Kellsbella – Not having a religion doesn’t mean not having morals.  Morality pre-dates your religion and isn’t even unique to our species.  In no way does being moral require belief in an invisible man in the sky.

  5. Kellsbella says:

    @agnophilo – How very odd. It seems to me as if ancient man held quite a few beliefs. (Granted, I’m only going by what archeaologists have recovered.)

  6. agnophilo says:

    @Kellsbella – A pack of wolves can’t survive without an instinctive, biological inclination to help each other and not hurt each other let alone a human civilization.  Some forms of morality necessarily pre-date civilization and pre-date our species.  To think all morality comes from christianity is just ethnocentrism, it’s like thinking all freedom comes from america because you happen to be american.

  7. Kellsbella says:

    @agnophilo – You just hate that I’m the Alpha and you’re my bitch. I don’t recall making a comment of morality coming from Christianity.

  8. YouToMe says:

    @galadrial – hahhaa. i loaf that “biscuits short of a tin. “@agnophilo – definitely agree about the spirit of the law and how the Bible has been twisted. of course you know my beliefs still and stance, so won’t rehash here.  yes, i checked mail. nothing yet. 

  9. Doitean says:

    @Kellsbella – Let me rephrase that for him: to say that morality comes from any religion is ethnocentrism.

  10. If Gluttony is a sin: SIN ON BABY!

  11. Ampbreia says:

    This has been my take on the Bible as well.

  12. Kellsbella says:

    @Doitean – But there has always been religion…..

  13. Doitean says:

    @Kellsbella – No, there hasn’t. There is no evidence that early man had any religion at all, not even Animism.There certainly wasn’t any religion before human beings came along, yet millions of species of other social animals got along just fine for hundreds of millions of years with their own morals without a religion.

  14. Doitean says:

    @Kellsbella – And all that is disregarding the fact that there are people (such as myself) with no religion, yet with morals.You cannot simply pretend that billions of people (atheists and agnostics alike) have never existed.

  15. Kellsbella says:

    @Doitean – I’m going by books and articles I have read that are contrary to your comment. I see that I must now hunt for sources, (which I’d really rather not do)….Let’s save time, shall we? Have you not read on Native American Indian tribes? That’s a great start….Off the subject now; when are you going to finish your story?

  16. Doitean says:

    @Kellsbella – Native Americans? Good lady, I am talking much earlier than that. All the way back when the first human beings evolved in Africa.There is no evidence they had any sort of religion, not for a few thousand years at the very least.

  17. Wow says:

    @Kellsbella – This is from your first comment in this thread:[I find it pertinent that you speak on interpretation of the Bible. I say this because my interpretations (or misinterpretations) counter Christians and Athiests alike. Still; it is the book for me. This poses an interesing question in my mind: Is a society better off without morals? I should think the numbers will make their own argument.]How is that NOT saying that the bible is a source of morals? And that’s going lightly. It seems that you’re clearly making the connection that the bible is THE source of morals. And then you say this: [I don’t recall making a comment of morality coming from Christianity.]Wow, indeed. If you really do not *recall* making a comment that clearly implies  that morality comes from Christianity, then your short-term memory is pretty defective. You should go get checked. I’m not being derisive. There’s gotta be something a bit off in your noggin.

  18. Doitean says:

    @Kellsbella –  And, of course, you have yet to address my other points at all.

  19. Kellsbella says:

    @Wow – The Bible is but one source of the teachings of moralities and happens to be my preference as my comment clearly states. And if you observe the wording of my comment, you are actually the one interpreting what you deem fit to suit your own purpose.There’s a lot off in my noggin, luv, but I still love to play. @Doitean – So was it Africa, then? I find it best to be a bit wary of science and more trusting in a Higher Source….. Example:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling   

  20. Doitean says:

    @Kellsbella – So you prefer to rely on superstition and myth rather than reason and rationality?I think that ends our discussion.

  21. Wowee says:

    @Kellsbella – Nice try. “It is THE book for me…Is a society better off without morals?”  What I said stands. Better luck next time. @Doitean – I wouldn’t bother with kellsbella anymore. She just said she mistrusts science and prefers a “higher source” – whatever the hell that is. That ends any possibility of productive discussion. Once someone even IMPLIES that they place faith in unprovable myths over science, they’ve firmly place themselves outside all reason and common sense. But kells didn’t imply it – she flat out admitted it.  It’s up to you to keep wasting your time, though. I just felt like putting my two cents out there.

  22. Kellsbella says:

    @Doitean – I suppose it depends on how one interprets what is reasonable and what is rational.

  23. Wowee says:

    @Doitean – Ok, looks like we were commenting at the same time. Good for you. She prefers to believe in fairy tales. Let her live in her fantasy world.

  24. Doitean says:

    @Kellsbella – Not really. Science is the process of reasoning. Reject one and you reject the other.

  25. Wowee says:

    I truly weep for humanity. It’s beyond embarrassing that we have people consciously preferring myth over reason. And reason and logic are NOT based on opinions. There are established parameters. Of course, what the hell would she know?  *sigh* 

  26. Kellsbella says:

    @Wowee – “It is the book for me“Thought I’d change the emphasis for ya, luv. Please read my comments in their context. I shall be more than happy to prompt you …I think I shall now have to go stalk you……

  27. Kellsbella says:

    @Doitean – Science must be questioned, and by no means rejected!@Wowee –  I know that I cannot get to your site. Did I break something? I always have the fear that I will transform a site….(past experience…..) What were we on about? Oh, and why can’t I get to your site?

  28. Doitean says:

    @Kellsbella – You don’t seem to understand what science is.1. Observe phenomena. 2. Use logic to hypothesize a cause and a result. 3. Experiment. 4. Observe results of experiments. 5. Review and revise hypothesis. 6. Repeat from step 1.That is science. That is logic. That is the foundation of reason.If you leave out any steps, your reasoning becomes faulty.

  29. cute_sushi says:

    Actually, there was birth control in Biblical times. And there are references to Sheol in the Old Testament. Grace is definitely not the same thing as nirvana…grace is a gift to the undeserved, something you can’t earn on your own–kind of like mercy, while nirvana is a peace of mind that is earned.

Speak yer mind.

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