Re: Liberals Are More Racist.

Before I say anything this is not intended to smear anybody or insinuate that being a democrat or a republican makes you racist, the following exchange was merely me defending the claim that the democratic party/liberals are deliberately conspiring to keep black people in america poor because democrats are racist based on the claim that LBJ supposedly once privately used the N word several decades ago…  ::eye-roll::  To which I said:

“And we elected a black president to make black people *think* we weren’t racist! It’s all a part of our evil racist plot. And conservatives inviting a white nationalist who promotes the message that the republican party should exclusively seek the votes of white americans as a guest to the biggest conservative event of the year, CPAC and making the theme of the event this year “The Failure of Multiculturalism: How the pursuit of diversity is weakening the American Identity” – this is clearly a plot by republicans to make themselves *seem* racist to… appeal to racist democrats… or something…”

To which the other person (you will probably be able to figure out who it is) said:

“You must stop hallucinating arguments. People elected Barack Obama for a variety of reasons, all of which were based on total ignorance. How much does anyone really know about him?”

Then proceeded to rant about marxism and other irrelevant nonsense I will spare you. 

To which I said:

So racist democrats voted for barrack obama out of ignorance? Of what, that he was black? Your claim is squarely refuted so you just bail and start a bunch of irrelevant arguments about things nobody was discussing like usual. Yes, democrats are the racist party. Look at the diversity of the republican party.

So many shades of white. In congress there are 44 black members, 42 are democrats and 2 are republicans. Of the 31 hispanic members, 21 are democrats. Of the 91 female members of congress 72 are democrats. 9 of the 10 asian/pacific islanders are democrats. The republicans do have the one native american congressman, though that’s not a large enough sample size to show a trend, or a large enough demographic to compare to the general population. [Source (.pdf)]

Is there racism among democrats? I’m sure there is. But to claim that democrats are on average more racist (or sexist) as a party is just ridiculous. Conservatives are by definition not keen on progressive values and forward thinking.


About agnophilo

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49 Responses to Re: Liberals Are More Racist.

  1. galadrial says:

    I voted for him because he WASN’T McCain.That, and the thought of Palin being that close to the Presidency made me physically ill. The woman is a brainless. witless, braying TWIT.

  2. Kellsbella says:

    Conservatives are by definition not keen on progressive values and forward thinking.”True, they’re not, and our values have nothing to do with race. Before Herman Cain dropped out of the race, very many conservatives were in his camp, including me. I don’t know what post you are referring to, but perhaps the person was trying to point out to you the damage that Democratic policies have done to the black and hispanic races. Personally, I don’t believe it is racist, I just think it about bigger govt. and more control for their party.

  3. I voted Obama, and will vote Obama because I am smart enough to know who is going to help this country get back on it’s feet and also smart enough to know it is going to take time.

  4. TheSutraDude says:

    i figured out who the person is. it’s a no-brainer

  5. TheSutraDude says:

    @Kellsbella – “An Ohio GOP election official [republican Doug Priesse] who voted against the weekend voting rules that enabled thousands to cast ballots in the 2008 election said Sunday that he did not think that the state’s early voting procedures should accommodate African-Americans.”I guess I really actually feel we shouldn’t contort the voting process to accommodate the urban — read African-American — voter-turnout machine,” Doug Priesse said in anemail to the Columbus DispatchSunday. “Let’s be fair and reasonable.”’s former Republican Party chairman Jim Greer testified under oath that he attended a meeting of Florida republican leaders in which they discussed ways to keep blacks from voting. also Hispanics.

  6. cmdr_keen says:

    It’s all shades of grey. People will have their own beliefs no matter what, especially if they match up with their own preconceptions and beliefs that they want, even if it doesn’t mesh with reality.There’s a cartoon where it talks about how remaining in one place will only foster hate, bigotry, and racism. It’s cured by travelling and experiencing different cultures first hand. I would wager if those on both side of the isle did a bit more travelling, especially OUT of the US, attitudes may change.

  7. agnophilo says:

    @TheSutraDude – The guy in florida said on video that they did the voter ID law so romney could carry the state.

  8. PPhilip says:

    The repub biased person trotted out VP Biden as racist. What a spin, a made up accusation and no other active racist action. The very fact that the Repubs are shutting down opportunities for blacks to vote and staying silent on the defense speaks volumes.Oh blacks are voting for Obama in droves….well it speaks volumes when whites voted for Obama in droves too. The actions of some politicians are despicable, only when someone goes too outrageous is there a peep (aka when a politician claims raped women do not get pregnant)Show me a democrat who is a birther? More likely it is harder to find a Republican who will denounce other republicans who claim Obama is not a citizen. Mr. Trump sticking to his birther bias shows he is a racist leaning bastard.

  9. SerenaDante says:

    My favorite is when people say “But Democrats were pro-slavery during the Civil War!” I am always afraid my eyes will get stuck in the back of my head from the amount of rolling they do in such instances.

  10. I think the race issue is winding down for being a problem in mainstream politics. There may be a few people who throw out the race card. But the GOP has appeared to be at least trying to clean up its act on open bigotry.

  11. Saridactyl says:

    This is amusing to me. I live in the south, many people from other places try to tell me racism isn’t a problem anymore. Most of the people I know wouldn’t vote for Obama because he was black, they voted for McCain. 

  12. I’d say it’s hilarious if I didn’t know some people believe every kind of bullshit. 

  13. TheSutraDude says:

    @agnophilo – are you confusing Florida with Pennsylvania? State Senate leader republican Mike Turzai was caught on video telling that to his fellow republicans. It wouldn’t surprise me if someone in Florida was caught saying it out loud too. 

  14. So we try to have a civil conversation with you and your response is a hate post.Not only are Democrats racists, but they are hateful racists. I gave you the quotes to prove it and the history of the Democrat Party and its racist ways is undeniable.Democrat Party icon and longtime Senator from West Virginia, Robert Byrd was a leader in the KKK and refused to serve in the military because, he did want to serve with “race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds.”The Democrat Party also carried on a war against women starting with Ted Kennedy who killed his girl friend while cheating on his wife.Because he was rich he got off Scott Free.The War on Women proceeded with Bill Clinton who raped, abused and sexually harassed countless women.And Democrats like you knew all of this and voted for them anyway!Notice how Republican voters are calling Akin out for being stupid and demanding that he retire.That’s because Republican voters have standards while Democrats do not.

  15. @TheSutraDude – So now you’ve been reduced to petty gossip. The Democrat voter has no shame.

  16. Ikwa says:

    I so Agree! Racist reasons were not why I vote for or against anyone. It is their policies. That being said I am a Centrist and will vote for Obama again.

  17. Kellsbella says:

    @TheSutraDude – So my sweet angel baby, you may feel me up, scan me, swipe my palms, and OMG! have me show my DL when I fly, but for something as important as voting, you can just waltz in like Matilda and vote? Urban American does not equate to a black person. Don’t put words in his mouth.I’m a Floridian and I’m quite familiar with the Rep. stupid-a$$ Greer, just as I’m quite familiar with the Dem. stupid-a&& Nelson. Stupid- a$$ses are on both sides of the aisle.The fact is this president has done far more harm than good. I suppose I need to give your brain a bit of a nudge. I know how forgetful folks become…… why must you always get me riled up and put me to task? Can you not just tell me a joke? I suppose I must now provide links….Just out of curiosity, do you recall who controlled the House and the Senate from 2006-2010? And the Executive Branch from 2008? Oh well, we got the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, er, Tax. At least that’s what the ruling opinion (Roberts) of the SCOTUS was.Let’s not pay any mind to WTF is going on across the pond, right? The PIIGS know exactly what they’re doing and it’s the best plan to follow in their footsteps.The writing is on the wall. How can you not see it?!?

  18. TheSutraDude says:

    i didn’t put words in his mouth. that is the exact quote from the email he wrote. notice the quotation marks. yes we do have the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act from which millions of individuals and many small businesses are already benefiting and according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office the Affordable Care Act will lower the deficit by $1 trillion in 10 years. let me remind you Congressional republicans decided to block anything that would help this economy in the hope they could retake the White House in 2012. they’ve admitted to it. they’ve declared it. there is a jobs bill and an infrastructure bill held up in Congress right now because of republican filibustering. i believe the American people understand this because the Congressional approval rating is sitting at 10% and has hovered around that number, slightly above and below since last summer. in spite of the best efforts of republicans we’ve seen private sector job growth for over 28 straight months and Wall Street is above the $13,000 mark and has been for most of the year. don’t talk to me about writing on the walls when you can’t even read quotation marks. oh and knock it off with the lame sexual innuendo. it’s not becoming of you and doesn’t interest me. 

  19. @TheSutraDude – Yes, about as hilarious as Senator Al Franken. You know. He’s the guy who used to joke about rape.So the Democrat Party is rotten racist and sexist from top to bottom and you drones think it’s the GOP.

  20. – @SerenaDante – Actually, More Democrats voted against the civil rights legislation than the Republicans in the 1950’s. Almost all Southern Democrats voted against the civil rights bill. The fact that Republicans saw this as an opportunity to gain clout (much like their courting of the fundamentalists in more recent decades) courted with their sometimes veiled and sometimes not veiled racist policy to appeal to the angry prejudiced redneck voter and as a result the South went Blood Red.Strom Thurman (@PrisonerxOfxLove sleeps on SThurmy Bedsheets)- who headed up the Filabuster to stop the civil rights bill changed parties and went on to be lead of this philisophical change.

  21. Kellsbella and PrisonerxOfxLove are the same person, no?

  22. netnguy says:

    @tendollar4ways – Actually, More Democrats voted against the civil rights legislation than the Republicans in the 1950’s. Almost all Southern Democrats voted against the civil rights bill.Of course, a good many of those very same people or their supporters later switched to become modern-day Republicans.-netnguy

  23. netnguy says:

    @PrisonerxOfxLove – Democrat Party icon and longtime Senator from West Virginia, Robert Byrd was a leader in the KKK and refused to serve in the military because, he did want to serve with “race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds.”All for which he later profusely apologized.Meanwhile, a large number of those racist Dems later switched parties and became Republicans, because it was the conservative Republicans who were supporting continuing segregation in the South (including Buckley and Goldwater).Your *point*?-netnguy

  24. agnophilo says:

    @netnguy – Why agree with him dickishly?

  25. @netnguy – What would you or any Democrat think of a Republican who apologized for being a member and leader in the KKK?Has any one of you accepted Todd Akin’s apology?Would Bill Clinton be any less of a sleaze bag if he apologized for raping Juanita Broderick or squirting jizz all over Monica’s blue dress?You guys call America’s last two Boy Scouts, Romney and Ryan, dirty names. You waged an 8 year hate campaign against George Bush and then sat there with your thumbs up your butts when Obama did exactly the same things.Reality means absolutely nothing to you people.

  26. netnguy says:

    @PrisonerxOfxLove – Has any one of you accepted Todd Akin’s apology?As I’m a firm believer that a woman’s right to abortion, period, and that the matter is her business and none of yers, his apology is irrelevant. His position is still one of violence against women.Would Bill Clinton be any less of a sleaze bag if he apologized for raping Juanita Broderick You mean an allegation not deemed credible enough even to warrant a trial. or squirting jizz all over Monica’s blue dress?Consensual sex. What’s a little mess among friends?You guys call America’s last two Boy Scouts, Romney and Ryan,You mean Richie Rich and Richer?You waged an 8 year hate campaign against George BushYou mean President Cheney, of course, who waged an 8-year war against both the pocketbook and the civil liberties of the 99 %. Reality means absolutely nothing to you people.You’re forgetting it’s *your side* who denigrates us as the “reality-based community”.-netnguy

  27. Usually when conservatives talk about racism among the Democrats they are talking about velvet glove racism, which involves the government giving benifits based on race (implying that some peopel are capable of achieving less on their own) and welfare spending which creates generations of people dependent on welfare.  Usually the focus there is on the black community, but to a lesser degree on latino groups.  Although anti-white racism does exist in much higher quantities among Democrat voters, it’s just that liberals generally do not count anti-white racism as racism.That being said, the fact that the Democrat party contains larger numbers of non-white people in Congress means little as far as your argument goes.  You know full well that the Democrats and liberals in general like to create diversity on purpose.  Also many liberals think that large gatherings of white people are racist, and that white communities are a bad thing and need more diversity.  Republicans are more pragmatic.Here are some statistics from the CIA world factbook on the demographic makeup of the US:white 79.96%, black 12.85%, Asian 4.43%, Amerindian and Alaska native 0.97%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.18%, two or more races 1.61% (July 2007 estimate)It may be that the Republican party draws more of a constituency from the 79.96% but I fail to see how that would be a bad thing in and of itself.  As for liberals or Democrats being more forward thinking, you might consider rephrasing that.  Anyone who relies on Keynesian Economics is not thinking very far ahead, unless they are some kind of nihlist.  Also, look at the hostility with which Obama has treated the space program.  Not only did he cancel the Constellation program, but he also attempted to cancel the next phases of the Mars program, which would have included sending soil samples back to Earth.  What a prick he is!  That’s not very forward thinking, but my guess is that he does it with the approval of most of his constituency.  I wonder how many NASA scientists will vote for the Democrats in the next election?

  28. @netnguy – How is being against abortion a type of violence against women?Also, did you seriously think Bush and Cheney waged a war against our bank accounts?  What do you think it is Obungle is doing?  He is costing us a lot more.  Either that sentence was a late night type or you are a conservative trying to make liberals look foolish.

  29. @netnguy – what I said…Second paragraph was poor…but yea, since the civil rights legislation the Repubs have consciously taken a racist stance to appeal to redneck racists…thus by definition…they are the current party of racism.

  30. @tendollar4ways – You’re just throwing out catchphrases.  Do you have an objective case for them being more racist than the Democrats?  Citing specific examples is a good place to start.

  31. @Ikwa – That makes you a leftist not a centrist.

  32. @Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex – Labeling the GOP the party of racism is a bit over the top…..I will give you that much. Voter suppression and the ID card BS in PA and FL comes to mind.

  33. lucylwrites says:

    Republicans always seem to forget about the Southern Strategy.

  34. @netnguy – Why is it that whenever a Republican apologizes, “it’s irrelevant?”And whenever a powerful Democrat like Bill Clinton sexually harasses one of his employees, “it’s consensual sex?”What you are displaying is bias the size of the solar system and beyond which is typical of your average Democrat voter.

  35. netnguy says:

    @PrisonerxOfxLove – Why is it that whenever a Republican apologizes, “it’s irrelevant?”Anyone who “apologizes” but then still endorses the same position is not really apologizing, and hence it’s irrelevant. Akins is not changing his position, just his choice of words.And whenever a powerful Democrat like Bill Clinton sexually harasses one of his employees, “it’s consensual sex?”With Monica, it was consensual sex. No one disputes that. He wasn’t harassing her.What you are displaying is bias the size of the solar system and beyond which is typical of your average Democrat voter.Buzzttt! Wrong again. Actually, I am not a fan of Democrats too. (Sellouts).-netnguy

  36. netnguy says:

    @Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex – How is being against abortion a type of violence against women?Because of the number of women who died trying to get them when illegal? By the fact that the position of the Republican Party is that it’s better that a woman die than a single cell of a fetus be hurt (what do you think the hoopla over third trimester abortions is all about?)From this source:”One stark indication of the prevalence of illegal abortion was the death toll. In 1930, abortion was listed as the official cause of death for almost 2,700 women—nearly one-fifth (18%) of maternal deaths recorded in that year. The death toll had declined to just under 1,700 by 1940, and to just over 300 by 1950 (most likely because of the introduction of antibiotics in the 1940s, which permitted more effective treatment of the infections that frequently developed after illegal abortion). By 1965, the number of deaths due to illegal abortion had fallen to just under 200, but illegal abortion still accounted for 17% of all deaths attributed to pregnancy and childbirth that year. And these are just the number that were officially reported; the actual number was likely much higher.”Fundamentally, this is all about a woman’s right to her body. Period. End of discussion. Also, did you seriously think Bush and Cheney waged a war against our bank accounts? Actually, I’ll let this Pew study answer that question.As for Obama, he’s essentially has been continuing Bush-Reagan’s policies, as a Blue Dog Democrat (which is how he describes himself privately) so it’s not surprising that Obama’s continuing conservative policies brings the same results.-netnguy

  37. @netnguy – The Democrats I mentioned all still hold the same position as before. Bill Clinton is a proven liar whose apologies meant absolutely nothing.Todd Akin apologized for saying something stupid, not his position on abortion. Taking a stand against the ruthless murder of unborn children is nothing to apologize for.Your argument for abortion is an argument justifying the murder of innocence as a cure for the immoral behavior of adults. How is that anywhere near logical or moral?Further, blaming Bush and Cheney is long past lame. President Obama and people like you have to look at yourselves and quit placing the blame on others who are long gone.  Besides, blaming others is simply handing over power to someone else.  That is a psychological pathology that we certainly do not want in a President of the United States.

  38. netnguy says:

    @PrisonerxOfxLove – Bill Clinton is a proven liar whose apologies meant absolutely nothing.Bill Clinton is a politician, and hence a liar on many things. But 1) he didn’t rape or sexually harass Monica, no one alleged that at the time, even Republicans.2) he’s got plenty of company in lying about sexual hanky-panky among Repubs.Your “morality” gets awfully selective ’bout this.Your argument for abortion is an argument justifying the murder of innocence It’s not “murder” because a fetus is not a person. In the first two trimesters, there is no brain activity–heck, there’s no neocortex until the third trimester!Most people have no problem defining death as the absence of brain activity. Well, if death is that, then the corresponding beginning of life is when the brain fires up. That doesn’t happen until the third trimester (and even then it’s doubtful that the fetus has consciousness).That’s why Roe was decided as it was. In the first two trimesters, it’s a decision entirely left up to the woman–as it should be. In the third, abortions can still be performed but only if the woman’s life or health is at risk. That’s important, because the reason you guys prattled about 3rd trimester abortions means quite literally that you would rather have the woman die (and possibly the fetus too) in order not to feel icky about the matter. Many third trimester abortions were cases where the couple *wanted* the baby, but something went horribly wrong and it became a matter of either doing the abortion or having the woman DIE. You’d rather have the woman DIE.Yep, that’s your “morality”.As for your concern for “the innocent”, you should be reminded of a fact from anthropology, which is:Previous to the widespread availability of contraception and abortion, all cultures previously controlled their populations via infanticide.Doesn’t matter if they officially allow it or prohibit it. Anthropologists can tell this by looking at the under-14 gender ratio in cultures–cultures that commit infanticide have more boys than girls, sometimes drastically more (like 4:1), sometimes marginally more, like 1.2 or 1.1 to 1. And even though the early US was not under particular population stress, you see it in our history too–in the 1790 census.So–in reality what the anti-abortion, anti-contraception crowd wants is not only dead women, but dead babies too. Those are the real consequences of their actions. Their “morality” is not based upon concern for human life, it’s a hysterical anti-sexuality “morality” that seeks to punish people for having sex. Further, blaming Bush and Cheney is long past lame.Are Bush tax cuts still with us? Are we still involved in Middle Eastern wars? Is Medicare still being bankrupted (actually, sabotaged) by Medicare Part D? Obama’s sin is that he continues all of these (making excuses for why he can’t supposedly do away with them) and then on top of us gives us *RomneyCare*. Conservatives pretend they hate Obamacare but Obamacare is simply what conservatives have been calling for for decades now–in fact, the same Tea Partiers who scream about Obamacare get all misty-eyed when Paul Ryan proposes his plan for putting old people on ObamaCare.And yeah, Obamacare won’t work, the same way that RomneyCare (actually slightly better) isn’t working in Massachusetts. Forcing people to fork over money to private companies for insurance is not the same as giving them access to actual health care. For that, we’d need a system like Britain’s or Canada’s (better yet, a combination of both). But actually, I blame *Reagan*. The rot was certainly beginning then. Conservatives have taken what was the greatest nation on earth and run it into the ground.-netnguy

  39. @netnguy – What kind of an argument is that?  So if I put a gun to my head and pull the trigger is someone else responsible for what happens?  You can’t hold other people responsible for people choosing to hurt themselves.  Also, it’s not about a woman’s “right to her body,” it’s about extending the same legal protection to citizens who are in the womb as citizens who are outside.  The left has decided to arbitrarily draw a line during the developmental process on when the baby becomes sentient, but that is not anything concrete.  So we can probably agree somewhat on Obama.  But if you don’t like paying taxes then the Democrat party is not the party for you.  They are the party of taxation, and you know that.  Bush was not a real hardcore conservative.  He was a neo-con.  Obama has continued all of his worst policies and added more.  Obama has quadrupled the national debt, who do you think will pay for it?  We cannot afford any more Democrat leadership.

  40. @netnguy – “Bill Clinton is a politician therefore a liar.” That is simply absurd. Look how you are making excuses for Democrats but have no mercy for the likes of Bush, Cheney and Akin.Your arguments are the result of 0% morality and 100% bias.That means reality is whatever you hallucinate it to be and that you have no interest whatsoever in fairness, truth-telling or justice.Which is my original complaint about the Democrat Party, the party of Robert Byrd the racist, Ted Kennedy and Bill Clinton the sexual abusers and liars, and Barack Obama the incompetent who, like you still blames George Bush and Dick Cheney for his failure to fulfill his promises.

  41. @galadrial – @transvestite_rabbit – That would be a real mindfuck. We know with almost absolute certainty that Prisoner is Curtis – aka Loborn, aka many other sites. I hardly think he’d donate money to me (to get a patent on something I invented), as Kellsbella did a while ago. So…I mean, if you have something that would kinda demonstrate that they’re the same person, I’d love to see it. Hey, it could go either way, but if I’m to even slightly favor one option over the other, I’d like to have some solid reasons to do so. 

  42. Kellsbella says:

    @transvestite_rabbit – Come up to the lab and see what’s on the slab. Silly rabbit;Trix are for kids. Prisoner doesn’t have my quick wit, but I’m sure that my comment flew right over your purdy lil head, as well.

  43. vexations says:

    I think the terms used to describe the movement was from Dixiecrats” to “Rednecklicans” I remember the Dixiecrats in 1948.  What is interesting is that when I moved to TN in 1968 it was important to vote in the primary because the democratic nominee would win.  That is now the case with republicans.  If one wants a voice now it is best to vote in the republican primary. A variety of factor brought about these political shifts and one was integration. I’ve lived in Ohio, Minnesota, South Dakota, California and Tennessee.  Unless one actually lives in a southern state it is easy to underestimate the impact of the movement from segregation to integration. @netnguy – 

  44. netnguy says:

    @Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex – What kind of an argument is that? An argument based on a description of how people have always acted in aggregate based on empirical observation. That’s what the social sciences do, study the aggregate behavior of humans. Or do you believe (from another social science, economics) that the question of say, whether or not a price of a good has no effect on how many people will buy it? I’d say that you actually buy the same “kind of arguments” except when they gore your particular ox.To repeat: before contraception and abortion became available, the chief method that human cultures controlled their populations was by infanticide. Infanticide occurred whether or not the culture officially approved or tabooed it or not, and where officially prohibited it hid under many disguises–babies fell prey to “accidents”, they died of neglect and/or deliberate starvation, people gave them to wet nurses with the understanding that they would be “offfed”, or they were donated to orphanages where the survival rate was so low that you could be as sure of killing your baby as much as if you had tossed it into the nearby river.  Since (for a variety of reasons) boy babies were more often reckoned to be “keepers” more so than girls, this results in a under-14 gender ratio bias. You can see that ratio skew everywhere from the cultures in Amazon jungle, to villages in rural India, to the Domesday book in medieval England, to the early US census. How marked that skew is depends on several factors–the overall population stress, the prevalence of war in a culture, and in agricultural societies how much labor is required by the farming technique utilized. As I said previously, it wasn’t terribly marked in the early US period because the US population had low population stress.So–what you’re REALLY after, whether you care to admit it or not, by your little war against abortion (and contraception too?) is dead babies and dead women. Dead babies, because history and anthropology tell us that’s *exactly* what will result, and dead women, for the same reason plus you stipulate that a woman must bear the kid even when it’s likely gonna kill her. it’s about extending the same legal protection to citizens who are in the womb as citizens who are outside. They are no more “citizens” and no more alive than any other person who lacked a functioning neocortex.Repeat after me: if you’re brain-dead, you’re not alive. That is not any arbitrary line, that’s a line nearly everyone thinks is reasonable when it comes to the end of life, because with modern technology we can keep almost everything else going. But if there’s nothing happening upstairs, why bother?But if you don’t like paying taxes then the Democrat party is not the party for you.Taxes are necessary. We don’t pay enough as a society. The rich should pay what they used to pay when American was great–which was an effective rate of over 70 %! (and I’m not talking about the nominal rates–that was up to 94 %–but what they actually PAID even after all the loopholes and deductions that their armies of accountants could find). And when we had a tax structure like that, believe it or not, most people paid less.We also had money to explore space, to build the interstate system, to develop the internet, and to be the world’s leader in technology, all while paying down our WWII debt at the same time. The current low-tax/low-investment economy of Reaganomics has given us massive debts, a gutted manufacturing base, stagnant technology (yes, you heard that right), a declining middle class, a growing and desperate underclass, all while also feeding a bloated financial sector of leeches who use their stealings to buy Congress and to corrupt government (Repubs and Dems alike).In many cases, paying taxes for a public service is a far better deal than not paying taxes and then having to deal with matters via a private service. Heck, my current and past water and sewer systems is evidence for that (the higher-cost one (but only by about $20-25) is much nicer in that if you have a sewer problem you simply call and they come out and fix it for free, as opposed to having to spend thousands of dollars digging up your yard itself).-netnguy

  45. netnguy says:

    @PrisonerxOfxLove – That is simply absurd. Look how you are making excuses for Democrats but have no mercy for the likes of Bush, Cheney and AkinI’m the one who criticizes Clinton and Obama in this thread, while you say that conservatives/Republicans are as pure as the driven snow despite my posting this list of Republican sex scandals? Please. Sorry to be brutally honest with you, but you’re so blindly partisan you’re a dupe. And unless you’re a member of the 1 %, while they smile and nod at you they plan to steal everything you have. You rail against Obamacare without noticing how it’s actually YOUR side’s plan and indeed they tell you that they’ll replace Medicare with Obamacare (just under a different name) you cheer wildly for the same thing you railed against a breath earlier. You rail against Obama when he implements a conservative agenda from everything from education to taxes to spending, it’s just that he’s got this “D” next to his his name is why you don’t get it.And before you say anything, there are plenty of “Obamacrats” out there too who are just as tribal in their mindless allegiance to Obama and make excuses for him and fail to see beyond his liberal-sounding speeches at what the man actually *does* and implements, which is often quite the opposite. This condemnation could also be extended to many other Democrats, who manage, somehow, some way, to not to do as they promised during the campaign and blame those “mean nasty Republicans” when the same impediments never stop the Republicans when they hold power. The two parties engage in one big kabuki theater show for the public but in reality Big Money holds the ears of both and they vie in attention on which one can be bribed the most easily. The Republicans are more honest about being bribed; the Democrats want to pretend that they’re for the little people but they too don’t go against Big Money (as ObamaCare shows).-netnguy

  46. netnguy says:

    @Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex – and welfare spending which creates generations of people dependent on welfare.Ever heard of TANF? Your information is so outdated. TANF payments have a lifetime limit of 60 months; some states shorten that.And because of that, as predicted, in an economic recession TANF, that darling born of a conservative Republican house and a centrist Democratic president, is a FAIL. Just as we predicted it would in a serious downturn.Oh, and economic good times for most welfare was a temporary assistance. The Welfare Queen was and is a myth.Anyone who relies on Keynesian Economics is not thinking very far ahead, unless they are some kind of nihlist. The only kind of capitalism that worked and which produced the greatest prosperity the world has ever seen in nihilism? If so, bring on the nihilism!(My fault with Keynesianism is that’s a patch on capitalism that has proven not to hold).-netnguy

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