The Presidential Debate Last Night.

Just going to give a few thoughts.

Romney’s plan is basically to cut taxes dramatically while increasing spending and reducing the deficit.  Which is kind of like losing weight while eating more bacon and ice cream.  He says the positive, popular things he will do (bacon and ice cream are yummy), but then refuses to say how he will actually pay for any of it (you will have to do nine million jumping jacks a day and eat only one meal) because that would be unpopular, then just lies and says it won’t increase the deficit (bacon and ice cream aren’t really fattening) when in the short term at the very least it would have to.  Even if tax cuts were the magic tonic to cure the economy overnight, they would still add to the deficit just like the stimulus did.  And by the way, part of the stimulus was the largest tax cut in US history and we’re still not out of the woods, so call me crazy but I doubt the magical economy-healing power of tax cuts.

I would also like to point out again that romney claims he has a plan to create 12 million jobs over the next 8 years only now that economists predict the economy is on track to create exactly that many jobs in exactly that time frame even if no one does anything for the next 8 years.  Which romney has actually said would help, so long as it’s him doing nothing.  From the hidden camera fund raiser tape:

“If it looks like I’m going to win, the markets will be happy. If it looks like the president’s going to win, the markets should not be terribly happy. It depends, of course, which markets you’re talking about, which types of commodities and so forth, but my own view is, if we win on November 6th there will be a great deal of optimism about the future of this country. We’ll see capital come back, and we’ll see—without actually doing anything—we’ll actually get a boost in the economy.”

He then continued:

“If the president gets reelected, I don’t know what will happen. I can never predict what the markets will do. Sometimes it does the exact opposite of what I would have expected.”

So yeah.  Anyway, I thought the president did much better from a not being full of shit perspective, but romney did better in a “lie about your opponent so rapidly they don’t have time to rebut all your claims and it looks like a net win” department.  I thought romney made some good jabs like saying obama was a hypocrite for wanting to cut a few billion because he spent 90 billion on clean energy – which is not actually true the real figure is about a third of that (not all of which has even been spent) most of the rest of the 90 billion went to weatherizing homes and other things – and the spending was from the stimulus which was meant to inject cash quickly into the economy to stop job losses (which it did).  The claim that half of the companies that got “green” energy stimulus money are out of business is also a lie, only four of the 23 companies that received money have gone under or been sold since the stimulus passed.

But yeah, people said this debate was so impressive for romney because he showed he could talk about specifics and specific policies and figures, but he outright refused to give specifics on key issues like tax policy and gave a lot of “specifics” that were specific, but not actually accurate. 

For instance, 57% of the claims romney made have been ranked untrue by 5 of the leading non-partisan fact-checking organizations.  Is that the case?  I don’t know.  But it sure is specific, so you should rec’ this blog, and vote for mitt romney.


About agnophilo

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40 Responses to The Presidential Debate Last Night.

  1. The rest of this post was great, but the losing weight analogy out the starting gate was freaking laugh out loud fun!  Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

  2. Randy7777 says:

    You need to read Romney’s lips – He told Obama several times that that was not the case about taxes.  It’s a distorted Obama deception. 

  3. agnophilo says:

    @Randy7777 – Actually it’s about 80% accurate, the only thing incorrect about it is that obama did what every politician today does, say what something will cost over 10 years.  It’s no less dishonest than romney saying obama cut medicare by over 600 billion dollars (which is more than the annual cost of the entire program).

  4. TheSutraDude says:

    i thought it funny that Romney said, you put your money where your heart is because it made me think immediately of the millions Romney has hidden away in the Cayman Islands and in Swiss banks in order to avoid paying income taxes….the avoidance of paying income taxes….exactly what he’s accused 47% of Americans of doing. last night Romney reminded me of Dan Quayle in a VP debate with Al Gore. with a smirk on his face Quayle insisted Gore had written something in Gore’s book. Quayle went as far as to tell him the page number it was written on told Gore, “You should read your own book”. back then the internet was not what it is today and there were no fact-checking organizations like we have today but by the time the debate was over press organizations got their hands on copies of Gore’s book and found Quayle’s claim was a total fabrication.  

  5. agnophilo says:

    @TheSutraDude – It made me think of the 3% he gives to charity and the 97% he spends on himself.

  6. Randy7777 says:

    @agnophilo –  Obama did not challenge Romney’s statement last night about medicare.  The main difference between Obama and Romney on Medicare is who is going to take care of it.  Obama -Federal and Romney -States.  Romney wants to put the 600 billion dollars back into Medicare that Obama took out and put it in Obamacare.  (Obamacare – Federal)

  7. Randy7777 says:

    @TheSutraDude – Romney reminded me of Reagan.  His soft voice and sometimes the Reagan head tilt. 

  8. TheSutraDude says:

    @agnophilo – ha! yes. and that reminds me of something else. before the debate Chris Matthews held a short mock debate in which former RNC chairman Michael Steele (a decent guy) played Romney and Pulitzer Prize winning correspondent Eugene Robinson played Obama. playing the debate host Matthews asked Steele about Romney’s pro-Vietnam War stance. he asked how Romney could justify actively demonstrating for the war while exempting himself from the draft. it was a funny moment. Steele, a Romney advocate playing Romney in this mock debate answered his religion makes him a conscientious objector. Matthews laughed and asked what kind of religion is that? your religion says you can’t fight in a war but the other guys can? btw, Romney mentioned Solendra again. Solendra was actually vetted by the Bush administration but probably because of the economic collapse the Bush administration didn’t have time to push the go ahead through. instead it was left as an item on the to-do list for the incoming Obama administration. Obama’s only mistake was to not spend the time and money to re-vet Solendra and to instead take the word of the Bush administration. 

  9. TheSutraDude says:

    @Randy7777 – i can see that but i’m guessing you think that’s a good thing. Reagan’s economic adviser who talked him into trickle-down economics apologized after the 2008 economic collapse, admitting he was wrong and trickle down did not work and did not bring about its intended result. Alan Greenspan also apologized. Romney and Ryan still believe in the economic policy and want to bring it back. 

  10. @Randy7777 – Romney intends to cut the marginal tax rate by 20%.  

  11. Randy7777 says:

    @TheSutraDude – The Reagan years were some of the greatest years for America for economic growth. I don’t think you’ll find too many people that thought otherwise. 

  12. Randy7777 says:

    @flapper_femme_fatale – Yes – & Obama intends on increasing taxes.  If Obama gets his way I will be loosing a couple thousand dollars on taxes because of not repealing Bush’s tax plan.  I don’t make that much. 

  13. I thought you were an Obama fan.

  14. UTRow1 says:

    @Randy7777 – [The Reagan years were some of the greatest years for America for economic growth.] Not really. There was a terrible recession that began during the second year of Reagan’s first term that crippled the manufacturing sector and slowed entry-level and management job growth to one of the worst rates in modern American history. His economic policies also increased the federal debt as a percent of GDP by 11.3%, which was an exceptionally high rate over the last 100 years. Also, for middle and low income Americans, the Reagan years were pretty awful. Interest rates on everything from cars to mortgages were exceptionally high, making it difficult for many people to live/work where they wanted to, further limiting their employment opportunities. For instance, my medical school loan rates shot up by 9% after Reagan’s first 3 years in office, which formed me to stay in-state for medical school instead of attending one of the more prestigious schools I was matched at; furthermore, the lowest interest rate I could find in a car in Texas during that period was 19%. Those are both strikingly bad. Lastly, his pro-deregulation rhetoric was the basis for the Federal Reserve’s non-interventionalist policies that directly and primarily contributed to the financial collapse in 2007-2008, which will likely cripple job growth for at least a decade. Some of his specific economic policies were successful, but his broad economic ideology has proven to be one of the most damaging in modern American history.The only modern president who presided over an economy that had almost across-the-board economic prosperity was Clinton, and his general economic ideology is virtually the exact opposite of Reagan’s. If we are going to use any president’s policies as a framework, it should be his, not Reagan’s.

  15. YouToMe says:

    I’m not rec ing for Romney in case there is any confusion

  16. Randy7777 says:

    @UTRow1 – Reagan was once asked about the critism he was recieving.  He replied, “History will remember my record correctly”  I don’t care how much you want to change history you can’t.  The Reagan years were very economically successful.  It was a great time to be an American.  It was a great time to be in the military. 

  17. musterion99 says:

    Romney’s plan is basically to cut taxes dramatically while increasing spending and reducing the deficit.  Which is kind of like losing weight while eating more bacon and ice cream.   He says the positive, popular things he will do (bacon and ice cream are yummy), but then refuses to say how he will actually pay for any of it.You missed the part where he explained that cutting the taxes for small businesses will allow them to hire more people, who will then be taxed and bring in more revenue.

  18. Cut taxes, move in the direction of a balanced budget. That’s the plan.  How do you get spending increases out of that?

  19. cmdr_keen says:

    @musterion99 – Except that’s what was tried under Bush, continued under Obama and still sluggish job growth. It’s a huge myth, and someone like Mark Cuban made the point that very few entrepreneurs even worry about what their tax burden would look like based on what they do; they just try and make the most successful business they can.There are so many other variables – compensation for current workers, research and development, marketing, technology upgrades, benefit packages, dividends, profit margins  – that simply saying “Cut taxes and see job growth off the charts” is crazy talk.It’s the same approach to reigning in the deficit and paying down the debt. It’s not simply tax cuts, or spending cuts, but a measured, balanced approach between paying less for some stuff and bringing in more revenue elsewhere. All the tax cuts are going to do – especially in this economy – is going into savings accounts rather than spending, even on new jobs. 

  20. Randy7777 says:

    @musterion99 – You’re like Obama who is destorting the facts.  Obama needs to run on something and quit running on destorting what his opponent is saying and blaming the past.

  21. musterion99 says:

    @Randy7777 – Was that comment meant for me or cmdr_keen?

  22. Obama did not do bad.  He was defending an 8%+ unemployment for 4 year record and record deficits.  What was he supposed to say to that?  He has a ton of charisma and handled his bad record better than anyone else could have.

  23. musterion99 says:

    @cmdr_keen –  @Randy7777 ‘s comment was for you, not me.

  24. @TheTheologiansCafe – Performance-wise Romney did alright.  He was aggressive and high emotion – 2 things Republicans must relate to given the success of Limbaugh and conservative TV and radio people like him.  Substantively Romney did poorly though.  What he presented as his basic plan for a better economy, vague as he continues to be, is still a tried and true failure.

  25. Maverick83 says:

    Bacon and ice cream aren’t fattening. That’s just a theory. More specifically, it’s a myth manufactured by Big Diet, to trick people into buying expensive “healthy” foods and products, which are loaded with secret ingredients that make you sick, thereby driving up healthcare costs, which will increase the amount of money Obamacare steals from the job creators, and will be funneled directly into Project Rainbow Nazi 9-11, Obama’s secret program to convert America to a homosexual socialist muslim nation. Once this has sufficiently weakened us both physically and mentally, we will be harvested by the space lizards Obama is taking his orders from.

  26. Aloysius_son says:

    I think Romny carried himself better and was a more articulate speaker, something that had impressed me about Obama over the years. Obama seemed uncertain and out of sorts. That being said, neither seemed to be consistantly truthful or on track to provide genuine thoughts regarding the questions. Both seemed to regurgitate the same drivel I have been hearing for the past forty years from nearly every presidential canidate.In the end I suppose the role of president really is merely a figurehead representative of our monstrous government and rarely the leader we all believe we are electing. Base solely on their perfomance last night I would vote for Romney. Based on their past performances I would pick Obama by a slim but clear margin. I have not liked Romney, nor his position on many current affairs. I guess I am going to have to pay more attention who their core group of supporters are to better understand what politics they are most likely to press onward with.Although I am not a stanch supporter of “Obama care” as the Clintons health care reform bill has come to be known, is written in its current incarnation I believe that health care reform has been a genuine need of this nation’s people. I would like to see the national health care reform bill, refined, honed, and perfected, not abandoned and restarted from scratch. I believe Romney would be wrong to rpeal the bill in its entirety, although there may be aspects of the law that need to be revised.Health care reform, much like economics is not a party issue, but rather a national issue. It would benefit us all if the parties were to cooperate more and play politics less.

  27. I’ll rec your blog, ’cause it’s funny as hell.  Love the comparison to bacon & ice cream.  Hits the nail on the head.  As for voting… I’ll say what I’ve said before.  Obomney for Pres.  They’re the same anyway.

  28. mcbery says:

    I think you should listen to Rush, Glenn and Sean without prejudice, for a whole month and then tell us what you think about dishonesty. Just a thought.

  29. TheSutraDude says:

    @Randy7777 – some people benefited from the Reagan years but memories are foggy. following WII middle class income grew at at a rate which paralleled income growth of the wealthy up until 1982. from 1982 and the advent of Reaganomics until 2008 the growth in income for the top 2% began skyrocketing while the growth in income for the middle class flat-lined. by 2008 income disparity reached a level not seen since the stock market crash that signaled the beginning of the Great Depression. Reagan left us with a huge deficit and a double-dip recession which turned out to be the death knell for Bush Sr.’s reelection campaign. when Bush Sr. ran for his first term he famously said “Read my lips. No new taxes.” instead he had to raise taxes during his first term to offset the recession and the deficit. in large part that was what cost Bush his reelection bid. it’s funny to hear Gingrich praise Reagan these days. Reagan couldn’t stand Gingrich and largely left him out of policy making. Gingrich on the other hand said publicly “Reagan blew it” and said it will be a long time before the party trusts Reagan again. that followed the Iran Contra scandal during which the administration illegally sold weapons to Iran behind Congress’ back. Oliver North became the most famous fall guy for that scandal but I believe the number of Reagan administration officials who were prosecuted was 11. speaking of taxes, while Romney has spent the last year telling people he will cut taxes across the board by 20% he changed his story during the debate and said his plan does not cut taxes. according to fact checkers this was one of the 20-30 misleading statements and lies he told during the debate 2 nights ago. there was a time when politicians could say one thing to one part of the country and one part of the electorate and get away with saying the opposite to other parts. due to social media, youtube and the information age they can no longer get away with that. you’re probably aware of the video that came out a few weeks ago showing Romney telling $50,000 a plate donors that, among other things, 47% of Americans are moochers. that 47% includes soldiers who are exempt from paying income taxes because they are in combat zones. yesterday Romney finally admitted he was wrong for having made that statement. another of Romney’s (i’ll politely call it) misleading statements during the debate didn’t need fact checkers to point it out. Romney said during the debate his healthcare reform plan will not allow denial of health insurance because of preexisting conditions. his own campaign quickly came out with a statement that Romney misspoke on that issue. 

  30. shadow320 says:

    I think Obama could have said more, but I just loved the way he just out & out laughed at Romney’s bullshit!  My take?  I thought he was just blown away by the ridiculousness of Romney’s statements: Romney never ONCE answered any questions!  He just made empty promises & refused to say how he was going to do any of it.  No one seemed to pick up on the fact that while he said he was going in increase 12 million jobs he also said he was going to “trim down” the federal employees.  That means he’s going to FIRE FEDERAL EMPLOYEES as in DOWNSIZE.  Being a retired federal employee I paid attention to this.  No one else seemed to notice.  When Bush senior was in office I went 7 years without even a cost of living raise because, shucks, we just can’t afford it.  Seven years of watching the prices of everything go up while my paycheck stayed the same.  When we complained we were threatened with a 2 week furlow.  A furlow means you get laid off for 2 weeks but cannot collect unemployment.  Nice, huh?  And now he’s going to balance the budget with cuts to federal employees (the rest of them will just have to work harder) and PBS.  OH yeah, That’ll do it!  God help us all!

  31. The best years to be an American? Those were the ’90’s, under Bill Clinton, with some help from Newt Gingrich.  Obama barely said anything the other night.  It looked like he was studying Romney carefully, preparing for next time, crossing his fingers for today’s jobs report (not bad, relatively speaking) and thinking about how deeply in Michelle’s Dog House he was in, for agreeing to a debate on the night of their 20th.  Romney doesn’t need anyone to distort what he says- he does that well enough on his own.

  32. Ikwa says:

    Nobody caught the Romney said he would not allow certain deductions!? That is what we use to help pay our taxes. 3 of the big ones are Charity(churches BTW), Mortgage (small Business),and Itemized deductions. WOW That’s HUGE! We would have to owe and so would every small business I know that uses those. My husband had a small business and this helped us to be able to deduct the house. Farms use this too to help keep their taxes lower. Sneaky sneaky liar Romney.

  33. Ikwa says:

    @TheSutraDude – I so agree with you. The huge immigration problem is on Ronny’s shoulders.

  34. TheSutraDude says:

    @Ikwa – yes Romney’s created a huge problem for himself for saying self-deportation was his solution to the immigration issue. he also initially spoke out against Obama giving a temporary amnesty to young Hispanics who did not come here of their own accord but who now are in school or serving in the military or contributing to society in some way. i think he’s flip-flopped on that since.

  35. shadow320 says:

    @musterion99 – They aren’t going to hire more people until there are more customers.  There won’t be more customers unless the jobs are created FIRST!!!  Am I the only person who thought about this?

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